JEP 495 Question

[Brian Goetz]

You pass the "only respond if you are an instructor" test, but I was 
asking a very specific question: what can we say about the relative 
learnability of `IO.println` vs `println`?

There's infinite room to design new APIs but we're looking for feedback 
on a specific question.


On 11/21/2024 7:14 PM, Matt Pavlovich wrote:
> Hello-
>
> How about a series of classes that provide the same I/O methods (and 
> behavior!) across the spectrum of I/O types?
>
> This would allow:
> 1. New coders to learn on the console, which provides the benefit of 
> immediate feedback loop
> 2. Allow new coders to transition from Console to File to Socket by 
> changing only a single word in the source code
>
> Console.readInt
> Console.readIntln
> Console.writeInt
> Console.writeIntln
>
> Socket.readInt
> Socket.writeInt
> ..
>
> File.readInt
> File.writeInt
> ,,,
>
> Properties.readInt
> Properties.writeInt
> ,,,
>
>
> Thanks,
> Matt Pavlovich
>
> Instructor: 1,000+ hours of classroom
> Teacher: 8th grade robotics/engineering/programming
>
>> On Nov 21, 2024, at 12:45 PM, Brian Goetz <brian.goetz at oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to validate this further, but I'd like to seek feedback 
>> _from educators only_.  (Please include in your answer how long 
>> you've been teaching Java *formally*.)
>>
>>> I am with Stephen here.
>>>
>>> For effective learning, the gating factor is complexity, not 
>>> verbosity. The regularity of IO.println wins over the implicit import.
>>
>> I would like to assess how broadly this opinion is held _by 
>> educators_.  The three positions that have been espoused by various 
>> proponents are:
>>
>>  - println is simpler for learners, and so the speed bump of going 
>> from there to IO.println when going to non-simple compilation units 
>> is worth it.
>>  - IO.println is equally simple for learners, and has the benefit of 
>> uniformity, no need for static import.
>>  - IO.println is actually *simpler* for learners, because the IO 
>> provides context to what comes after the dot.
>>
>> It is easily imaginable for experienced developers to hold any of 
>> these views; consider all of those as having been read into the 
>> record.  I want to hear _from educators_ about which they would be 
>> more comfortable teaching, and why.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for keeping this channel clear for the experienced 
>> educators to speak.
>>
>
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