<!DOCTYPE html><html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="markdown-here-wrapper" data-md-url="" style="">
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">Hi</p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">On 15/03/2024 16:07,
Guy Steele wrote:</p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;"></p>
<div class="markdown-here-exclude">
<p></p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:942AC667-A175-4F72-9495-684F2FF9236E@oracle.com">
<div>Then again, now that I ponder the space of use cases, it
may be that, despite my initial enthusiasm, having a
separate string interpolation syntax may not carry its
weight if its uses are relatively rare. We always have the
option of using a string template and then applying an
interpolation processor (which might be spelled
`String.of(<template>)` or
`(<template>).interpolate()` or some other way), and
about all we lose from that approach is the ability to use
string interpolation to specify a constant expression—for
which we still have the old-fashioned alternative of using
`+` concatenation. If we drop string interpolation, we can
then drop the INTERPOLATION prefix, and we are back to a
single-prefix model, and the remaining question is whether
that prefix is optional, at least in some cases. Okay, I
think I now have a better understanding of the relationships
among the various proposals in the design space. Thanks for
your patience.</div>
</blockquote>
<p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;"></p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">I think the advantage
for <em>not</em> having a string interpolation prefix, is that
then interpolation is “just another processor” e.g. a static
method somewhere that takes a string template and returns a
String. Another String::format, in a way. So that leads to a
rather uniform design.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;"></p>
<div class="markdown-here-exclude">
<p></p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:942AC667-A175-4F72-9495-684F2FF9236E@oracle.com">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And now that I have that better understanding, I think I
lean toward (a) abandoning string interpolation and (b)
having a single, short, _non-optional_ prefix for templates
(“$” would be a plausible choice), on the grounds that I
think it makes code more readable if templates are always
distinguished up front from strings—and this is especially
helpful when the templates are rather long and any `\{`
present might be far from the beginning. It has a minimal
number of cases to explain:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>“…”
string literal, must not contain \{…}, type String</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>$”…”
template literal, may contain \{…}, type StringTemplate</div>
</blockquote>
<p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;"></p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">Yep, I agreee this a
very principled way to look at the problem.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;"></p>
<div class="markdown-here-exclude">
<p></p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:942AC667-A175-4F72-9495-684F2FF9236E@oracle.com">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think we have all made an honest effort to explain
string templates as a simple and clean superset of string
literals, but now that we have considered the typing and
overloading issues, my opinion is that it just isn’t
possible without some amount of unwanted complication.
Strings and string templates are just different beasts, and
we would do well to maintain that distinction rather than
trying to conflate them. Yes, requiring a prefix on
templates would impose a small cost—perhaps we should regard
it as a "syn-tax" rather than a “cover charge”—on every
template we write, but I judge that cost well worth it for
the readability it would buy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(By the way, I appreciate John’s suggestion of allowing a
template to begin with “\{} , but this strikes me as kind
of a hack rather than a natural use of the \{…} syntax. A
distinctive single-character prefix would be better.)</div>
</blockquote>
<p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;"></p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">I think there’s a
place for {}. E.g. where {} shines IMHO, is to allow for <em>comments</em>
inside string templates:</p>
<pre style="font-size: 0.85em; font-family: Consolas, Inconsolata, Courier, monospace;font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.2em;margin: 1.2em 0px;"><code class="hljs language-java" style="font-size: 0.85em; font-family: Consolas, Inconsolata, Courier, monospace;margin: 0px 0.15em; padding: 0px 0.3em; white-space: pre-wrap; border: 1px solid rgb(234, 234, 234); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); border-radius: 3px; display: inline;white-space: pre; overflow: auto; border-radius: 3px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0.5em 0.7em; display: block !important;display: block; overflow-x: auto; padding: 0.5em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background: rgb(248, 248, 248); -moz-text-size-adjust: none;">t"""
hello
this is
\{ /* a comment here */ }
a commented
template
"""
</code></pre>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">But as a “template”
prefix, it’s a bit of a lousy choice. For instance, one can
argue that “1.0” is different from “1”. But there’s only one
place where to look for that “.0”. Whereas, inside a text block,
you can have many different places where the {} ends up. So,
while this solves the problem for compiler writers, {} is not a
good solution for us humans.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0px 1.2em !important;">Maurizio</p>
<div title="MDH:PHA+SGk8YnI+PC9wPjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9Im1vei1jaXRlLXByZWZpeCI+T24gMTUvMDMvMjAyNCAx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" style="height:0;width:0;max-height:0;max-width:0;overflow:hidden;font-size:0em;padding:0;margin:0;"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>