OpenJDK on Solaris Dev Express 1/2008?

[Andrew John Hughes]

2008/6/5 Erik Trimble <Erik.Trimble at sun.com>:
> Andrew John Hughes wrote:
>>
>> 2008/6/4 Kelly O'Hair <Kelly.Ohair at sun.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what you mean by the Sun Studio trap.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm referring back to the Java trap - before Sun released their JDK
>> under the GPL,
>> it was possible to have applications under a Free Software license
>> written in Java
>> which couldn't be run in a Free environment because they would only work
>> under
>> the proprietary JDK.  GNU Classpath was the community's attempt to free
>> Java
>> from this trap.
>>
>> Only being able to build the OpenJDK using the proprietary Sun Studio
>> compiler on Solaris creates
>> a similar issue, though the scope of the problem is fortunately more
>> restricted.  I'm not sure OpenSolaris
>> itself can even be built with GCC, which is an even worse issue - it's
>> not truly Free Software if it can only
>> be built with proprietary tools.
>>
>>
>
> This is NOT a trap.  This is a CHOICE OF PREFERENCE made by the FS
> Community.  It is no more a trap than using GPL'd programs in conjunction
> with the Apache http server is.   Just because we don't play exactly in your
> world doesn't mean there is a trap.  Traps are when you cannot replace a
> whole component layer easily with something else.  So, if your GPL'd Java
> program had to run on a Sun JDK under Solaris, that would certainly be true.
>  However, you can run your Java program on one of about 4 major JDKs now,
> under over a dozen OSes, so that hardly qualifies as a trap.
>
> Remember, not everyone wants everything in one particular format (or,
> license).  We've got end-users who can't stand the GPL, for some _very_ good
> reasons. We've got other folks who are sore at us for not using an MPL-style
> license.   So, I take license-criticism extremely poorly.
>

Andrew Haley already made the point very succinctly.  I wasn't
discussing specific licenses
or Java applications, but the specific issue of building the OpenJDK
on OpenSolaris.  It's a different
and more specific trap, but one nonetheless.  On the bright side, I
think fixing it is much more tenable.

>>> Each release of a compiler requires some kind of work to the Makefiles,
>>> happened with gcc4, and will happen with SS12 and VS2008.
>>>
>>
>> While I can understand some changes being necessary for major releases
>> (e.g. the move from GCC 3 to 4),
>> every single release shouldn't need work; this suggest an issue with
>> the build system itself.
>>
>
> Sadly, no, this is an issue with the COMPILERS, not the make system. GCC,
> SS, and all other compilers has a nasty tendency to subtly break all sorts
> of things without rev-ing the major version number.  In GCCs case, this is
> often directly related to changes in GLIBC, particularly on Linux.   GCC has
> some bad (recent) history, as major changes were implemented without obvious
> notice, with no major version bump, and occasionally with no minor version
> bump either.  gcc 3.2 is considerably different than 3.3 or 3.4.   And, in
> Microsoft's case, their myriad of different compiler 'distros' within the
> same general release (i.e. Visual Studio vs Express vs VS Professional) is
> even worse, as they support very different library sets and compiler flags.
>   So, every time we want to support a new compiler, there's some work to be
> done to discover these differences, and adjust the makefiles to compensate.
>
> It would certainly be nice for the JDK to be able to build with more than
> one compiler on any given platform. But that's what a community is for -
> people interested in using a specific compiler should certainly not be
> prevented from doing so.  Our (Sun's) interest is primarily in supporting
> our own compilers.
>
> That said, the make system could use some serious streamlining, and the code
> itself could _really_ do a much better job of disentangling itself, so that
> it could be built in a more modular form.
>

Exactly; the reason for highlighting such issues openly on a mailing
list is so problems can be
worked on by the community.  I don't think it's Sun's job alone to go
and fix it, and likewise
I would see Sun as part of the community not a distinct entity from it.

>>> Andrew John Hughes wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GCC will NOT work under Solaris/SPARC, and I'm pretty darned sure it
>>>>> won't
>>>>> work under Solaris/x86 or Solaris/x64.   There are some significant
>>>>> GCC-isms
>>>>> which the JDK does not currently support.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, it would not be terribly difficult to modify the source to
>>>>> get
>>>>> GCC to work, but you'd definitely have to spend a bit of time doing so.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the next logical campaign is to avoid the Sun Studio trap then...
>>>> :)
>>>>
>
>
> --
> Erik Trimble
> Java System Support
> Mailstop:  usca22-123
> Phone:  x17195
> Santa Clara, CA
> Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800)
>
>



-- 
Andrew :-)

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