From wmeissner at gmail.com Tue Jan 29 00:31:38 2008 From: wmeissner at gmail.com (Wayne Meissner) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:31:38 +1000 Subject: How complete should a draft proposal be? Message-ID: <4ccee320801290031v1a991193v88b39567fced0eef@mail.gmail.com> Is it ok to post a draft proposal once we have just the outline of the idea, so we can get feedback to see if the idea is viable and/or will meet all the requirements, before going further with the proposal? i.e. is incremental draft proposal development & discussion ok, or should only "almost complete" drafts be posted? From Richard.Sands at Sun.COM Tue Jan 29 07:01:51 2008 From: Richard.Sands at Sun.COM (Rich Sands) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:01:51 -0500 Subject: How complete should a draft proposal be? In-Reply-To: <4ccee320801290031v1a991193v88b39567fced0eef@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ccee320801290031v1a991193v88b39567fced0eef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <479F3FDF.5020901@sun.com> We have been envisioning a very open process where you can get early feedback, ideas, and collaborate on the mailing list. So draft proposals are a fine idea. The more transparent, the better, I would think. -- rms Wayne Meissner wrote: > Is it ok to post a draft proposal once we have just the outline of the > idea, so we can get feedback to see if the idea is viable and/or will > meet all the requirements, before going further with the proposal? > > i.e. is incremental draft proposal development & discussion ok, or > should only "almost complete" drafts be posted? -- Rich Sands Phone: +1 781 881 4067 / x81524 Community Marketing Manager Email: richard.sands at sun.com Java SE Marketing SMS: 6172830027 at vtext.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From johnhax at gmail.com Wed Jan 30 00:02:06 2008 From: johnhax at gmail.com (John Hax) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:02:06 +0800 Subject: A small idea about java API for URI Message-ID: <16f9b2a50801300002q76da4de3q2cc89c7136bc7e18@mail.gmail.com> The contest seems very interesting, but I don't know whether I can make a complete proposal. Here is just my story and my idea. Last weekend I was writing my own URI implementation in JavaScript because there is no standard library in JS. (Oh, I'm a web developer not a pure Java guy :) I need to design an API for my URI class, so as usual, I use java API for reference. After one day hard work, I finished a clone of java.net.URI class in JavaScript. But I noticed that the documentation of java.net.URI says there are some deviations from the spec so I decide to read the spec (RFC2396) to check it. To my surprise, I found RFC2396 has been obsoleted by a new standard: RFC3986. It introduces many changes, for example, it doesn't use terms "scheme-specific-part", "opaque URI" any more; the definition of "absolute URI" has been changed (or clarified); some markers (such as ! *) have been moved from unreserved category to reserved category; it also include the clarification of empty path, relative reference, the resolution of the URI reference...All those improvements make java.net.URI outdated and not standard-compliant. The API for URI should be redesigned according to the latest standards, we may introduce a new URI class and mark the old java.net.URI deprecated. We also need some subclasses of URI for normal schemes, such as URN, HttpURI, FtpURI, FileURI...for scheme-specific operations (for example, it will introduce extra rules for equality and normalization), and AbstractURI class for building a new scheme. It also be very nice to implement a superset of URI, that is IRI, as RFC3987. (The docs of .NET System.Uri class says it implements the IRI within Uri class.) Finally, because URIs are just identifiers, and it has been the infrastructure of the most systems, so it may be not proper to put URI classes in java.net package. I think it should be java.util.URI. So, that's my small idea, redesign and implement URI/IRI classes, move them to java.util package and mark the old java.net.URI deprecated. From linuxhippy at gmail.com Wed Jan 30 11:45:27 2008 From: linuxhippy at gmail.com (Clemens Eisserer) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:45:27 +0100 Subject: So so few/high prizes? Message-ID: <194f62550801301145o72c760a4tdde0d766dcf30877@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've just subscribed to the list, so please excuse if this has been asked already before. What I wonder is why the prizes are so large (25.000$ each) and why there are only so few. I am a student and thought implementing a Java2d-Xrender-backend and some enhancements to the GtkLnf (which I would have done also without the prizes) would be a quite cool project for maybe a 2500$ prize - but this way - I don't think I have any chance at all. There will be a few high-skilled extremly motivated teams, that will work hard to get the money, and when its done, they are away. Another downside is that those teams will not work on "groundwork" - they will work on shiny new stuff leaving which will make everybody saying *wow* - but which won't solve existing problems. But if there would be e.g. 50x3500$ also small projects could participiate, maybe even with some kind of range like 1. is 15000, 2. is 10000, 3. is 7500 .... I am just interested what the idea behind this high prizes is? Why was it choosen in favour of many small one? Do you really think this will lead to improved open-source contributions? Thank you in advance, lg Clemens From Richard.Sands at Sun.COM Wed Jan 30 14:38:19 2008 From: Richard.Sands at Sun.COM (Rich Sands) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:38:19 -0500 Subject: So so few/high prizes? In-Reply-To: <194f62550801301145o72c760a4tdde0d766dcf30877@mail.gmail.com> References: <194f62550801301145o72c760a4tdde0d766dcf30877@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A0FC5B.4060009@sun.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/challenge-discuss/attachments/20080130/f209809c/attachment.html From linuxhippy at gmail.com Wed Jan 30 15:27:14 2008 From: linuxhippy at gmail.com (Clemens Eisserer) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:27:14 +0100 Subject: So so few/high prizes? In-Reply-To: <47A0FC5B.4060009@sun.com> References: <194f62550801301145o72c760a4tdde0d766dcf30877@mail.gmail.com> <47A0FC5B.4060009@sun.com> Message-ID: <194f62550801301527h64f37cajfb827cd825377339@mail.gmail.com> Hi Richard, Thanks a lot for your fast answer. > Thanks for your note. The issue with prizes is that it turns out to be > quite costly to administer them. We want to encourage contributions, but we > also can't afford to spend large amounts of engineering or marketing time > judging, evaluating, answering questions, managing the process, paying the > awards, etc. We felt that this structure was a good compromise between > wanting to reward the community and get some great things going, while > keeping the cost to administer the program within bounds we could afford. Well I already thought that this would be the case - however - if the outcome with the 7x25.000$ approach is 1.0 and with 20x5000$ its 2.5 (just relative numbers) the 50.000$ are well spent on administration tasks ;) Its just my opinion that few and high prices will lead to some shining (in future unmaintained) projects and many frustrated, disappointed groundwork contributors. I don't know whats the intention of the project is (maybe Sun _is_ seeking for such shiny projects to show how cool stuff comes out of opensourcing java), so I can't comment wether this is bador good - however I can imaging that openjdk would benefit more from loyal contributors which stay here even if money is gone ;) I don't think that my mail is able to change anything, and I guess there have been many brainstorming and discussion sessions inside of Sun.I just had to write my thoughts down. Anyway, thanks a lot for beeing that open-source friendly, and for doing real things (instead of blaming others to do so like big blue did with Sun) instead of just talking about them. lg Clemens From davec-b at rogers.com Thu Jan 31 05:16:24 2008 From: davec-b at rogers.com (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:16:24 -0500 Subject: Are consultants considered Sun employees? Message-ID: <47A1CA28.6080106@rogers.com> Then official rules say: Employees of Sponsor and Sun Microsystems, Inc. ("Sun"), and each of their respective parent companies, affiliates and subsidiaries, participating advertising and promotion agencies (and members of their immediate family, defined as parents, children, siblings and spouse, regardless of where they reside, and/or those living in the same household) are not eligible. Sun Campus Ambassadors are eligible to participate. I'm a contractor working for Sun: am I excluded? --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb at spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain (416) 223-5943 From ashwinbhatks at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 09:08:31 2008 From: ashwinbhatks at gmail.com (Ashwin Bhat) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:38:31 +0530 Subject: Are consultants considered Sun employees? In-Reply-To: <47A1CA28.6080106@rogers.com> References: <47A1CA28.6080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: I had a similar question. What about Sun Campus Ambassadors ? Are they allowed to participate ? On Jan 31, 2008 6:46 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Then official rules say: > > Employees of Sponsor and Sun Microsystems, Inc. ("Sun"), and each of their respective parent companies, affiliates and subsidiaries, participating advertising and promotion agencies (and members of their immediate family, defined as parents, children, siblings and spouse, regardless of where they reside, and/or those living in the same household) are not eligible. Sun Campus Ambassadors are eligible to participate. > > I'm a contractor working for Sun: am I excluded? -- Regards Ashwin Bhat K S www.nitk.ac.in INDIA From Richard.Sands at Sun.COM Thu Jan 31 09:13:05 2008 From: Richard.Sands at Sun.COM (Rich Sands) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:13:05 -0500 Subject: Are consultants considered Sun employees? In-Reply-To: References: <47A1CA28.6080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <47A201A1.9070408@sun.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/challenge-discuss/attachments/20080131/5fbce0e4/attachment.html From davec-b at rogers.com Thu Jan 31 09:12:57 2008 From: davec-b at rogers.com (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:12:57 -0500 Subject: Are consultants considered Sun employees? In-Reply-To: References: <47A1CA28.6080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <47A20199.209@rogers.com> You're definitely *allowed*, according to the rules. --dave Ashwin Bhat wrote: > I had a similar question. What about Sun Campus Ambassadors ? Are they > allowed to participate ? > > On Jan 31, 2008 6:46 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > >>Then official rules say: >> >>Employees of Sponsor and Sun Microsystems, Inc. ("Sun"), and each of their respective parent companies, affiliates and subsidiaries, participating advertising and promotion agencies (and members of their immediate family, defined as parents, children, siblings and spouse, regardless of where they reside, and/or those living in the same household) are not eligible. Sun Campus Ambassadors are eligible to participate. >> >>I'm a contractor working for Sun: am I excluded? > > > -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb at spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain (416) 223-5943