PRE-PROPOSAL: Source and Encoding keyword

[Igor Karp]

Roel,

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Roel Spilker <r.spilker at gmail.com> wrote:
> In the proposal, there is a paragraph about having these keywords in the
> package-info.java (and in the module-info.java) as well to allow for a more
> coarse-grained declaration. We didný put this in the PRE-PROPOSAL email
> since it was already so long. Please keep to the questions asked in the
> PRE-PROPOSAL, and wait for a discussion until the PROPOSAL is sent.
>
> Roel
>

As I said before i believe the granularity can be addressed in your
your approach as well. But this is not my major concern. My major
concern is coupling data and metadata and complexities arising from it
(additional parsing to get the encoding right for example).

For the record my approach answers your issues B and C
>> >>> B) This means javac will need to read every source file many times to
>> >>> compile it.
>> >>> C) Certain character sets, such as ISO-2022, can make the encoding
>> >>> statement unreadable with the standard strategy if a comment including
>> >>> non-ASCII characters precedes the encoding statement. These situations

Igor Karp

> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Igor Karp <igor.v.karp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reiner,
>>
>> please see the comments inline.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot
>> <reinier at zwitserloot.com> wrote:
>> > Igor,
>> >
>> > how could the command line options be expanded? Allow -encoding to
>> > specify a
>> > separate encoding for each file? I don't see how that can work.
>> For example: allow multiple -encoding options and add optional path to
>> encoding -encoding <encoding>[,<path>]
>> Where path can be either a package (settings applied to the package
>> and every package under it) or a single file for maximum precision.
>> So one can have:
>> -encoding X - encoding Y,a.b -encoding Z,a.b.c -encoding
>> X,a.b.c.d.IAmSpecial
>> IAMSpecial.java will get encoding X,
>> everything else under a.b.c will get encoding Z,
>> everything else under a.b will get encoding Y
>> and the rest will get encoding X.
>> Same approach can be applied to -source.
>>
>> > There's no
>> > way I or anyone else is going to edit a build script (be it just javac,
>> > a
>> > home-rolled thing, ant, rake, make, maven, ivy, etcetera) to carefully
>> > enumerate every file's source compatibility level.
>> Sure, thats what argfiles are for: store the settings in a file and
>> use javac @argfile.
>>
>> And doing it as proposed above on a package level would make it more
>> manageable.
>> Remember in your proposal the only option is to specify it on a file
>> level (this is fixable i guess).
>>
>> > Changing the command line
>> > options also incurs the neccessary wrath of all those build tool
>> > developers
>> > as they'd have to update their software to handle the new option (adding
>> > an
>> > option is a change too!)
>> Not more than changing the language itself.
>>
>> >
>> > Could you also elaborate on why you don't like it? For example, how can
>> > the
>> > benefits of having (more) portable source files, easier migration, and a
>> > much cleaner solution to e.g. the assert-in-javac1.4 be achieved with
>> > e.g.
>> > command line options, or do you not consider any of those worthwhile?
>> I fully support the goal. I even see it as is a bit too narrow (see
>> below). But I do not see a need to change the language to achieve that
>> goal.
>>
>> On a conceptual level I see these options as a metadata of the source
>> files and I don't like the idea of coupling it with the file.
>> One can avoid all this complexity of extra parsing by specifying the
>> encoding in an external file. This external file does not have
>> itself to be in that encoding. In fact it can be restricted to be
>> always in ASCII.
>>
>> I think the addition of an optional path and allowing multiple use of
>> the same option approach is much more scalable: it could be extended
>> to the other existing options (like -deprecation, -Xlint, etc.) and to
>> the options that might appear in the future.
>>
>> I wish I could concentrate on deprecations in a certain package and
>> ignore them everywhere else for now:
>> javac -deprecation,really.rusty.one ...
>> Finished with (or gave up on ;) that one and want to switch to the next
>> one:
>> javac -deprecation,another.old.one
>>
>> Igor Karp
>>
>> >
>> > As an aside, how do people approach project coin submissions? I tend to
>> > look
>> > at a proposal's value, which is its benefit divided by the disadvantages
>> > (end-programmer complexity to learn, amount of changes needed to javac
>> > and/or JVM, and restrictions on potential future expansions). One of the
>> > reasons I'm writing this up with Roel is because the disadvantages
>> > seemed to
>> > be almost nonexistent on the outset (the encoding stuff made it more
>> > complicated, but at least the complication is entirely hidden from java
>> > developer's eyes, so it value proposal is still aces in my book). If
>> > there's
>> > a goal to keep the total language changes, no matter how simple they
>> > are,
>> > down to a small set, then benefit regardless of disadvantages is the
>> > better
>> > yardstick.
>> >
>> >  --Reinier Zwitserloot
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mar 7, 2009, at 08:15, Igor Karp wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot
>> >> <reinier at zwitserloot.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> We have written up a proposal for adding a 'source' and 'encoding'
>> >>> keyword (alternatives to the -source and -encoding keywords on the
>> >>> command line; they work pretty much just as you expect). The keywords
>> >>> are context sensitive and must both appear before anything else other
>> >>> than comments to be parsed. In case the benefit isn't obvious: It is a
>> >>> great help when you are trying to port a big project to a new source
>> >>> language compatibility. Leaving half your sourcebase in v1.6 and the
>> >>> other half in v1.7 is pretty much impossible today, it's all-or-
>> >>> nothing. It should also be a much nicer solution to the 'assert in
>> >>> v1.4' dilemma, which I guess is going to happen to v1.7 as well, given
>> >>> that 'module' is most likely going to become a keyword. Finally, it
>> >>> makes java files a lot more portable; you no longer run into your
>> >>> strings looking weird when you move your Windows-1252 codefile java
>> >>> source to a mac, for example.
>> >>>
>> >>> Before we finish it though, some open questions we'd like some
>> >>> feedback on:
>> >>>
>> >>> A) Technically, starting a file with "source 1.4" is obviously silly;
>> >>> javac v1.4 doesn't know about the source keyword and would thus fail
>> >>> immediately. However, practically, its still useful. Example: if
>> >>> you've mostly converted a GWT project to GWT 1.5 (which uses java 1.5
>> >>> syntax), but have a few files remaining on GWT v1.4 (which uses java
>> >>> 1.4 syntax), then tossing a "source 1.4;" in those older files
>> >>> eliminates all the generics warnings and serves as a reminder that you
>> >>> should still convert those at some point. However, it isn't -actually-
>> >>> compatible with a real javac 1.4. We're leaning to making "source
>> >>> 1.6;"  (and below) legal even when using a javac v1.7 or above, but
>> >>> perhaps that's a bridge too far? We could go with magic comments but
>> >>> that seems like a very bad solution.
>> >>>
>> >>> also:
>> >>>
>> >>> Encoding is rather a hairy issue; javac will need to read the file to
>> >>> find the encoding, but to read a file, it needs to know about
>> >>> encoding! Fortunately, *every single* popular encoding on wikipedia's
>> >>> popular encoding list at:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_encoding#Popular_character_encodings
>> >>>
>> >>> will encode "encoding own-name-in-that-encoding;" the same as ASCII
>> >>> would, except for KOI-7 and UTF-7, (both 7 bit encodings that I doubt
>> >>> anyone ever uses to program java).
>> >>>
>> >>> Therefore, the proposal includes the following strategy to find the
>> >>> encoding statement in a java source file without knowing the encoding
>> >>> beforehand:
>> >>>
>> >>> An entirely separate parser (the encoding parser) is run repeatedly
>> >>> until the right encoding is found. First it'll decode the input with
>> >>> ISO-8859-1. If that doesn't work, UTF-16 (assume BE if no BOM, as per
>> >>> the java standard), then as UTF-32 (BE if no BOM), then the current
>> >>> behaviour (-encoding parameter's value if any, otherwise platform
>> >>> default encoding). This separate parser works as follows:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. Ignore any comments and whitespace.
>> >>> 3. Ignore the pattern (regexp-like-syntax, ): source\s+[^\s]+\s*; - if
>> >>> that pattern matches partially but is not correctly completed, that
>> >>> parser run exits without finding an encoding, immediately.
>> >>> 4. Find the pattern: encoding\s+([^\s]+)\s*; - if that pattern matches
>> >>> partially but is not correctly completed, that parser run exists
>> >>> without finding an encoding, immediately. If it does complete, the
>> >>> parser also exists immediately and returns the captured value.
>> >>> 5. If it finds anything else, stop immediately, returning no encoding
>> >>> found.
>> >>>
>> >>> Once it's found something, the 'real' java parser will run using the
>> >>> found encoding (this overrides any -encoding on the command line).
>> >>> Note that the encoding parser stops quickly; For example, if it finds
>> >>> a stray \0 or e.g. the letter 'i' (perhaps the first letter of an
>> >>> import statement), it'll stop immediately.
>> >>>
>> >>> If an encoding is encountered that was not found during the standard
>> >>> decoding strategy (ISO-8859-1, UTF-16, UTF-32), but worked only due to
>> >>> a platform default/command line encoding param, (e.g. a platform that
>> >>> defaults to UTF-16LE without a byte order mark) a warning explaining
>> >>> that the encoding statement isn't doing anything is generated. Of
>> >>> course, if the encoding doesn't match itself, you get an error
>> >>> (putting "encoding UTF-16;" into a UTF-8 encoded file for example). If
>> >>> there is no encoding statement, the 'real' java parser does what it
>> >>> does now: Use the -encoding parameter of javac, and if that wasn't
>> >>> present, the platform default.
>> >>>
>> >>> However, there is 1 major and 1 minor problem with this approach:
>> >>>
>> >>> B) This means javac will need to read every source file many times to
>> >>> compile it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Worst case (no encoding keyword): 5 times.
>> >>> Standard case if an encoding keyword: 2 times (3 times if UTF-16).
>> >>>
>> >>> Fortunately all runs should stop quickly, due to the encoding parser's
>> >>> penchant to quit very early. Javacs out there will either stuff the
>> >>> entire source file into memory, or if not, disk cache should take care
>> >>> of it, but we can't prove beyond a doubt that this repeated parsing
>> >>> will have no significant impact on compile time. Is this a
>> >>> showstopper? Is the need to include a new (but small) parser into
>> >>> javac a showstopper?
>> >>>
>> >>> C) Certain character sets, such as ISO-2022, can make the encoding
>> >>> statement unreadable with the standard strategy if a comment including
>> >>> non-ASCII characters precedes the encoding statement. These situations
>> >>> are very rare (in fact, I haven't managed to find an example), so is
>> >>> it okay to just ignore this issue? If you add the encoding statement
>> >>> after a bunch of comments that make it invisible, and then compile it
>> >>> with the right -encoding parameter, you WILL get a warning that the
>> >>> encoding statement isn't going to help a javac on another platform /
>> >>> without that encoding parameter to figure it out, so you just get the
>> >>> current status quo: your source file won't compile without an explicit
>> >>> -encoding parameter (or if that happens to be the platform default).
>> >>> Should this be mentioned in the proposal? Should the compiler (and the
>> >>> proposal) put effort into generating a useful warning message, such as
>> >>> figuring out if it WOULD parse correctly if the encoding statement is
>> >>> at the very top of the source file, vs. suggesting to recode in UTF-8?
>> >>>
>> >>> and a final dilemma:
>> >>>
>> >>> D) Should we separate the proposals for source and encoding keywords?
>> >>> The source keyword is more useful and a lot simpler overall than the
>> >>> encoding keyword, but they do sort of go together.
>> >>
>> >> Separate. Another reason is: the argument of applying different
>> >> settings
>> >> to
>> >> different parts of the project is much less valid with encoding than
>> >> with source.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> --Reinier Zwitserloot and Roel Spilker
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> Overall: I would prefer command line options enhanced to handle the
>> >> situation
>> >> rather than language change.
>> >>
>> >> Igor Karp
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>