KSL [was Re: Introduction and RFC]

[Peter Reilly]

On 10/29/07, Stephen Colebourne <scolebourne at btopenworld.com> wrote:
> That sounds exactly like what I think we're missing ATM :-)
> Stephen
>
> Neal Gafter wrote:
> > After the migration to mercurial is complete, I am considering creating
> > an open-source project at openjavac.net <http://openjavac.net> as a
> > feeder project into KSL, with a hopefully lower barrier to entry. The
> > idea is to provide a centralized place to host mercurial patchsets for
> > proposals until they're more cooked.
Awsome,
http://gafter.blogspot.com/2007/10/java-closures-first-prototype.html
will be part of this !?

Peter

> >
> > On 10/26/07, *Stephen Colebourne* <scolebourne at btopenworld.com
> > <mailto:scolebourne at btopenworld.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     The KSL is great in theory, but it has yet to prove its value in
> >     practice. As far as I know, there have been no changes committed to KSL
> >     that separate it from javac.
> >
> >     In addition, KSL has a high barrier of entry (in terms of fulfilling
> >     all
> >     the many things that compiler writers and language designers should do,
> >     including documentation, spec writing and tests).
> >
> >     Of course, none of this is wrong, it just may signal that 'we the
> >     community' need to create another project separate from KSL where there
> >     is a much lower barrier of entry, but as a result a higher risk that the
> >     compiler/resulting code will be broken. ie. a place where ideas can
> >     actually be investigated.
> >
> >     Stephen
> >     PS. This discussion about KSL probably should be on the KSL list, but
> >     thread-wise it makes sense here for now.
> >
> >     PPS.I should also note that I originally signed up here as the KSL
> >     project webpages told me to do so, so the fact that there is now a KSL
> >     mailing list is rather a surprise.
> >
> >
> >     Frederic Simon wrote:
> >      > I really thought that the KSL was created exactly for that: Filtering
> >      > language proposals. But there are no mailing lists for KSL pure,
> >     and the
> >      > Bug database should not be populated with KSL noise.
> >      > About KSL, in my experience adding some code to javac (pure
> >      > implementation) to support small language proposal, is a lot
> >     faster and
> >      > cheaper than:
> >      > - Evaluate the coherence/readability
> >      > - Evaluate its usefulness (in writing code and API)
> >      > - Evaluate its impact on current API
> >      > - Evaluate the risk impact on the javac and JVM
> >      >
> >      > So, the KSL is great. Have it, play with it, throw it away (and "may
> >      > be", "sometimes", "rarely", "occasionally": keep it). And it does
> >     not
> >      > have to be Sun employees doing the steps. For me, once a language
> >      > proposal and RFE entry starts to get momentum (votes and so on),
> >     so the
> >      > team leaders as decided in the GB (Sun for the moment) can get
> >     involved
> >      > and evaluate the next steps.
> >      >
> >      > The KSL for me is  "Extreme Agility", and luxury of having the
> >      > implementation before deciding if you need it or not.
> >      >
> >      > So, please keep the spirit of it, it's good for everyone.
> >      >
> >      > On 10/25/07, *Dalibor Topic* <robilad at kaffe.org
> >     <mailto:robilad at kaffe.org>
> >      > <mailto:robilad at kaffe.org <mailto:robilad at kaffe.org>>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      >     Ted Neward wrote:
> >      >      > Interesting--which list *would* be the proper place to discuss
> >      >     language
> >      >      > proposals? Is there one? (Personally, I thought it was
> >     this one.)
> >      >      >
> >      >     I think the kitchen sink language project is the venue you
> >     are looking
> >      >     for: https://ksl.dev.java.net/
> >      >
> >      >     cheers,
> >      >     dalibor topic
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > --
> >      > http://freddy33.bglogspot.com/ <http://freddy33.bglogspot.com/>
> >      > http://www.jfrog.org/
> >
> >
>