From sean.mullan at oracle.com Fri Apr 1 16:54:47 2011 From: sean.mullan at oracle.com (Sean Mullan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0400 Subject: importing a local CA certificate into cacerts keystore In-Reply-To: <468F3A07-6FF7-4D35-909A-851E99FF61C9@yoderhome.com> References: <468F3A07-6FF7-4D35-909A-851E99FF61C9@yoderhome.com> Message-ID: <4D960357.8090005@oracle.com> Moving to security-dev at openjdk.java.net On 3/31/11 4:11 PM, Kurt Yoder wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm trying to run Apache Archiva using OpenJDK, and authenticating off SSL-protected LDAP. This is throwing an exception "sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target". Since my LDAP server's SSL is signed using my local CA certificate, I presume this error effectively is telling me I need to import my local CA certificate into the OpenJDK keystore. > > > Following this reasoning I am attempting to import my root CA, but I can't figure out how to do it. I tried: > > keytool -importcert -file /etc/ssl/certs/my-ca.pem -keystore /etc/ssl/certs/java/cacerts > > which gives me: > > keytool error: java.lang.Exception: Input not an X.509 certificate This means it can't decode the certificate for some reason. Try the following: keytool -v -printcert -file /etc/ssl/certs/my-ca.pem which should dump a trace of the exception with more info. --Sean > > > I also tried: > > keytool -importkeystore -v -srckeystore /etc/ssl/certs/my-ca.pem -destkeystore /etc/ssl/certs/java/cacerts > > but this gives me > > keytool error: java.io.IOException: Invalid keystore format > java.io.IOException: Invalid keystore format > at sun.security.provider.JavaKeyStore.engineLoad(JavaKeyStore.java:650) > at sun.security.provider.JavaKeyStore$JKS.engineLoad(JavaKeyStore.java:55) > at java.security.KeyStore.load(KeyStore.java:1201) > at sun.security.tools.KeyTool.loadSourceKeyStore(KeyTool.java:1560) > at sun.security.tools.KeyTool.doImportKeyStore(KeyTool.java:1603) > at sun.security.tools.KeyTool.doCommands(KeyTool.java:881) > at sun.security.tools.KeyTool.run(KeyTool.java:194) > at sun.security.tools.KeyTool.main(KeyTool.java:188) > > > Searching on the internet, I see something that *looks* like what I want, but doesn't appear to work with openjdk's keytool: > > http://www.grok2.com/blog/2010/09/14/keytool-jarsigner-oddity-on-ubuntu-with-openjdk-version-6/ > > eg "keytool -import -alias myCA -file my-ca.pem" > > > So does anyone have suggestions? Am I doing it wrong? From ryenus at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 15:42:21 2011 From: ryenus at gmail.com (ryenus) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 08:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: declarative getter/setter via annotation In-Reply-To: <20110321172212.4C9AC130D@eggemoggin.niobe.net> References: <20110321172212.4C9AC130D@eggemoggin.niobe.net> Message-ID: <31334547.post@talk.nabble.com> Here is a trivial one, I wonder if it's ok to request for something like declarative getter/setter to access class fields, namely via annotations such as: @accessor(set,is) private boolean field1; AND @accessor(set,get) private int filed2; in case there are multiple fields declared together, all fields should have getter/setter generated, such as: @accessor(set,get) private String field3, field4; This can reduce the noises incurred by plain getter/setter's, especially for big classes with a lot of fields. mark.reinhold wrote: > > It's time to start thinking about planning JDK 8. > > We already know what some of the big-ticket items are likely to be. > There'll be room for other features too, however, both large and small. > It's therefore time to define a simple process for collecting, sorting, > reviewing, and prioritizing proposals and plans for new features, for > JDK 8 and for later releases. > > Some essential requirements (not in priority order): > > - As lightweight as possible. > > - Simple mechanics. > > - Version-controlled, so that changes can be tracked. > > - Open to all committers, with transparent decision-making. > > - The basic format should not be too different from (a simplified > form of) the old Sun "one-pager" template [1], with which many > are already familiar. > > - An approved proposal should be able to serve as the authoritative > source of the summary and reference information needed for related > documents such as the release feature list [2] and the Platform > Umbrella JSR specification [3]. > > One can imagine all sorts of fancy database-backed systems that would > fulfill these requirements, but we need something sooner rather than > later. I think a workable solution, at least for now, is to collect > proposals as structured text files in a Mercurial repository. So that > people don't have to write raw HTML or XML we could use the "Markdown" > lightweight markup language [4] together with an existing convention > for placing common metadata at the top of a file [5]. The Mercurial > repository would be set up so that a push operation would automatically > update the appropriate web pages on openjdk.java.net. > > I've adapted an existing draft proposal for JDK 8 into Markdown as an > example [6] (thanks to Maurizio Cimadamore for the draft). The exact > template format would, of course, be a topic of further discussion. > > Comments? > > - Mark > > > [1] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+arc/onepager > [2] E.g., http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk7/features/ > [3] E.g., http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communityprocess/edr/jsr336/index.html > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown > [5] http://www.freewisdom.org/projects/python-markdown/Meta-Data > [6] http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~mr/draft-mcimadamore-inference.md > > -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Planning-JDK-8%2C-and-beyond-tp31202891p31334547.html Sent from the OpenJDK General discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From roger.calnan at oracle.com Mon Apr 25 20:56:01 2011 From: roger.calnan at oracle.com (roger.calnan at oracle.com) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Auto Reply: Project Proposal: Build Infrastructure Changes Message-ID: I am currently traveling, please contact Stephen Fitch for anything urgent Thanks, Roger From dalibor.topic at oracle.com Tue Apr 26 22:48:20 2011 From: dalibor.topic at oracle.com (Dalibor Topic) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:48:20 +0200 Subject: FYI: OpenJDK license file rebranding patch applied to the copy on web Message-ID: <4DB74BB4.5070000@oracle.com> Hi, I've applied the rebranding patch from [1] to the "GNU General Public License, version 2, with the Classpath Exception license" file on the OpenJDK website located at [2]. cheers, dalibor topic [1] "7013964: openjdk LICENSE file needs rebranding" at http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=7013964 [2] http://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html -- Oracle Dalibor Topic | Java F/OSS Ambassador Phone: +494023646738 | Mobile: +491772664192 Oracle Java Platform Group ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Nagelsweg 55 | 20097 Hamburg ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 M?nchen Registergericht: Amtsgericht M?nchen, HRA 95603 Komplement?rin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: J?rgen Kunz, Marcel van de Molen, Alexander van der Ven Green Oracle Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment From aph at redhat.com Wed Apr 27 08:39:17 2011 From: aph at redhat.com (Andrew Haley) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:39:17 +0100 Subject: Oracle will disc.. Itanium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DB7D635.5080500@redhat.com> On 28/03/11 16:38, Volker Simonis wrote: > Just for clarification (and in response to your last messages on the > "OpenJDK for Virtualization"-thread): > > - OpenJDK doesn't currently support Itanium in any way (and it would > be not trivial to add Itanium support from scratch) > > - IcedTea (http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/Main_Page) once build and > run on Itanium, but there's evidence that that's not the case anymore: > see http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345433. Notice that this > was an Interpreter only version based on Gary Bensons Zero-port of the > the OpenJDK. As this project was sponsored by RedHad and RedHad > dropped Itanium support you probably don't have to be a visionary to > predict its future. "Red Hat", please. Zero is portable C++. All it takes is someone who actually has an Itanium box to fix the bugs; if no-one who cares has an Itanium box then it doesn't matter anyway. Andrew. From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Thu Apr 28 08:00:46 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:00:46 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> Message-ID: On 27 April 2011 21:45, wrote: > Attached please find the minutes of Governing Board's meeting > on 2011/4/21. ?They're also available on the web: > > ? ?http://openjdk.java.net/groups/gb/minutes/2011-04-21 > > Respectfully submitted, > - Mark > > So in short, this unelected self-imposed board has already started to interfere with OpenJDK by preventing work on OpenJDK 8 from happening in the open and being subject to public review. That stinks. -- Andrew :-) Free Java Software Engineer Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com) Support Free Java! Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath http://openjdk.java.net PGP Key: F5862A37 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EA30 D855 D50F 90CD F54D ?0698 0713 C3ED F586 2A37 From fcassia at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 08:52:22 2011 From: fcassia at gmail.com (Fernando Cassia) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 05:52:22 -0300 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Dr Andrew John Hughes wrote: > So in short, this unelected self-imposed board Dear Andrew, Please read this: http://www.scottberkun.com/blog/2010/how-to-convince-anyone-of-anything/ FC From mark at klomp.org Thu Apr 28 09:17:15 2011 From: mark at klomp.org (Mark Wielaard) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:17:15 +0200 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> Message-ID: <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Hi Fernando, On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 05:52 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Dr Andrew John Hughes > wrote: > > So in short, this unelected self-imposed board > > Please read this: > > http://www.scottberkun.com/blog/2010/how-to-convince-anyone-of-anything/ So, how do you propose this so called "governing board" goes about convincing people like Andrew to not throw up their hands in disgust at ignoring the people doing actual community work and trying very hard not to just have to give up on OpenJDK and fork away? This board is largely made up of people which are not even actual OpenJDK hackers. There was a lot of specific feedback [*] aimed at both the selection of candidates and the actual governance structure, that as far as I can see has been largely ignored. This board doesn't convince that they should be "in charge" of governing. You can expect reactions like Andrew's if all the important questions asked on both the gb mailing lists and at Fosdem are largely ignored. How can we get answers to them and be convinced that the answers are the right ones? I also thought Andrew's message was somewhat undiplomatic, but he did express precisely what I was thinking myself. Thanks, Mark [*] See for example Andrew's own questions: http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/gb-discuss/2011-February/000081.html From fcassia at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 09:56:06 2011 From: fcassia at gmail.com (Fernando Cassia) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 06:56:06 -0300 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote: > So, how do you propose this so called "governing board" goes about > convincing people like Andrew to not throw up their hands in disgust at > ignoring the people doing actual community work and trying very hard not > to just have to give up on OpenJDK and fork away? This board is largely > made up of people which are not even actual OpenJDK hackers. I know very little things, Mark. I just have a few opinions, one of them is that the companies that have put more man hours into a project (or even, created them!) and pays for most of its developers should have a bigger say in the direction a given FOSS project, than a few vocal chronic complainers that apparently would only be happy if such companies "give up" all control of the project, all in the name of "community" of course. The FSF has repeatedly refused to take down RMS? anti-java rant "the java trap" article even while it has been renedered obsolete years ago, the moment Sun Microsystems decided to release Java SE as Free Software. So, "it takes two for tango", and sadly -as a former FSF contributor-, I can?t say I know what the FSF?s true intentions are anymore, and that rants like Andrew?s which start by attacking the governing board contribute very little to a climate of collaboration or moving things forward, unless of course the aim is to create the self-fulfilling prophecy, that is in this case, a fork. But hey, that?s me and my probably wrong, baseless and biased opinions, I?m sure. FC From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Thu Apr 28 09:57:16 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:57:16 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: On 28 April 2011 10:17, Mark Wielaard wrote: > Hi Fernando, > > On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 05:52 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Dr Andrew John Hughes >> wrote: >> > So in short, this unelected self-imposed board >> >> Please read this: >> >> http://www.scottberkun.com/blog/2010/how-to-convince-anyone-of-anything/ > You're assuming I'm trying to convince. As both Simon and Mark point out, we've already tried that with the governance board and bylaws, and seen no result. We also been working on this project for four years and we still have to put up with stuff like this. I did spend time thinking about how to put this (believe it or not), but nothing but being rather blunt and direct seemed appropriate to express my disgust at these actions. I'm tired of being diplomatic and having to chase around after every little decision. I'd just like to be able to hack code in a friendly community and make OpenJDK great. At present, this project couldn't be further from that. If you wonder why there aren't many independent contributors to OpenJDK, then this is it. I wouldn't be contributing to it if I wasn't being paid to do so. -- Andrew :-) Support Free Java! Contribute to GNU Classpath http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath PGP Key: F5862A37 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EA30 D855 D50F 90CD F54D ?0698 0713 C3ED F586 2A37 From henri.gomez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 10:05:53 2011 From: henri.gomez at gmail.com (Henri Gomez) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:05:53 +0200 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: > You're assuming I'm trying to convince. ?As both Simon and Mark point > out, we've already tried that with the governance board and bylaws, > and seen no result. ?We also been working on this project for four > years and we still have to put up with stuff like this. ?I did spend > time thinking about how to put this (believe it or not), but nothing > but being rather blunt and direct seemed appropriate to express my > disgust at these actions. > > I'm tired of being diplomatic and having to chase around after every > little decision. ?I'd just like to be able to hack code in a friendly > community and make OpenJDK great. ?At present, this project couldn't > be further from that. ?If you wonder why there aren't many independent > contributors to OpenJDK, then this is it. ?I wouldn't be contributing > to it if I wasn't being paid to do so. > -- > Andrew :-) Concretely what could be done to make OpenJDK more community/open aware ? From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Thu Apr 28 10:15:40 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:15:40 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: On 28 April 2011 10:56, Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote: >> So, how do you propose this so called "governing board" goes about >> convincing people like Andrew to not throw up their hands in disgust at >> ignoring the people doing actual community work and trying very hard not >> to just have to give up on OpenJDK and fork away? This board is largely >> made up of people which are not even actual OpenJDK hackers. > > > I know very little things, Mark. I just have a few opinions, one of > them is that the companies that have put more man hours into a project > (or even, created them!) and pays for most of its developers should > have a bigger say in the direction a given FOSS project, than a few > vocal chronic complainers that apparently would only be happy if such > companies "give up" all control of the project, all in the name of > "community" of course. > We're not saying they shouldn't have a say or even a "bigger say" than others. We're saying that they shouldn't have the only say, which is what this governing board tries to establish. These "few vocal chronic complainers" are the same ones that have actually made OpenJDK successful by making it available to users. It is one thing to drop a bundle of code over the wall. It's quite another to make a community project out of it. > The FSF has repeatedly refused to take down RMS? anti-java rant "the > java trap" article even while it has been renedered obsolete years > ago, the moment Sun Microsystems decided to release Java SE as Free > Software. > Looking at: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html it has been updated to reflect the current situation. I don't think it should be removed from the site, in some attempt to pretend the whole thing never happened. I'd also hardly call that a rant. It's a perfectly clear argument, just one you maybe don't happen to agree with. > So, "it takes two for tango", and sadly -as a former FSF contributor-, > I can?t say I know what the FSF?s true intentions are anymore, and > that rants like Andrew?s which start by attacking the governing board > contribute very little to a climate of collaboration or moving things > forward, unless of course the aim is to create the self-fulfilling > prophecy, that is in this case, a fork. > I don't see what the FSF has to do with this. I'd hardly call my brief comment a rant either, though I admit it was (deliberately) blunt. I wasn't attacking the governing board so much as I don't acknowledge this as being one or having any right to a say over a project which the majority of its members don't contribute to. Maybe you can explain why it's right that five people, three of whom have never contributed to the project, get to dictate, based on a closed discussion, that we can't have a new code repository? > But hey, that?s me and my probably wrong, baseless and biased > opinions, I?m sure. > Not sure whether that's sarcastic or not... it isn't really clear in e-mail. > FC > -- Andrew :-) Free Java Software Engineer Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com) Support Free Java! Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath http://openjdk.java.net PGP Key: F5862A37 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EA30 D855 D50F 90CD F54D ?0698 0713 C3ED F586 2A37 From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Thu Apr 28 10:20:35 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:20:35 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: On 28 April 2011 11:05, Henri Gomez wrote: > > Concretely what could be done to make OpenJDK more community/open aware ? > Well, as a start, this "governance board" could stop interfering and just allow people to get on with writing good code. The previous interim board was great in that it didn't interfere, but was there, should any issues arise that needed its attention. -- Andrew :-) From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Thu Apr 28 10:26:13 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:26:13 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <4DB93F7C.6010609@redhat.com> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <4DB93F7C.6010609@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 28 April 2011 11:20, Andrew Haley wrote: > On 28/04/11 11:15, Dr Andrew John Hughes wrote: >> On 28 April 2011 10:56, Fernando Cassia wrote: >> >>> So, "it takes two for tango", and sadly -as a former FSF contributor-, >>> I can?t say I know what the FSF?s true intentions are anymore, and >>> that rants like Andrew?s which start by attacking the governing board >>> contribute very little to a climate of collaboration or moving things >>> forward, unless of course the aim is to create the self-fulfilling >>> prophecy, that is in this case, a fork. >> >> I don't see what the FSF has to do with this. > > I think Fernando is confused by your email address. > Ah, ok. member.fsf.org does not mean I have any affiliation with the FSF other than my associate membership. Equally, I'm not posting from my work account as these are my views and not necessarily those of my employer. > Andrew. > -- Andrew :-) Free Java Software Engineer Support Free Java! Contribute to GNU Classpath http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath From mark at klomp.org Thu Apr 28 10:30:06 2011 From: mark at klomp.org (Mark Wielaard) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:30:06 +0200 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: <1303986606.3459.24.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 12:05 +0200, Henri Gomez wrote: > Concretely what could be done to make OpenJDK more community/open aware ? I think a lot of concrete issues were discussed 2 months ago: http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/gb-discuss/2011-February/date.html But to summarize in concrete actionable items wrt the board and governance: - Get rid of the SCA. Commit to using the GPL for everything. People should be able to be members of the community without having to assign all their rights on non-reciprocal terms to Oracle. - Don't tie OpenJDK work to the JCP/JSRs as long as those use terms which are community-hostile/GPL-incompatible. - Create a board without non-OpenJDK hackers or appointed seats. - Make the infrastructure open to the community instead of company controlled. - Keep communicating openly instead of hiding for months and then publishing declarations. Cheers, Mark From aph at redhat.com Thu Apr 28 10:33:45 2011 From: aph at redhat.com (Andrew Haley) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:33:45 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <1303986606.3459.24.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303986606.3459.24.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: <4DB94289.9010008@redhat.com> On 28/04/11 11:30, Mark Wielaard wrote: > > - Get rid of the SCA. Commit to using the GPL for everything. > People should be able to be members of the community without > having to assign all their rights on non-reciprocal terms to > Oracle. I'd like to respond to that, but shouldn't we drop gb-discuss from the groups list to do so? We're getting off-topic. Andrew. From mark at klomp.org Thu Apr 28 10:48:50 2011 From: mark at klomp.org (Mark Wielaard) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:48:50 +0200 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: <1303987730.3459.29.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 06:56 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote: > > So, how do you propose this so called "governing board" goes about > > convincing people like Andrew to not throw up their hands in disgust at > > ignoring the people doing actual community work and trying very hard not > > to just have to give up on OpenJDK and fork away? This board is largely > > made up of people which are not even actual OpenJDK hackers. > > I know very little things, Mark. I just have a few opinions, one of > them is that the companies that have put more man hours into a project > (or even, created them!) and pays for most of its developers should > have a bigger say in the direction a given FOSS project, than a few > vocal chronic complainers that apparently would only be happy if such > companies "give up" all control of the project, all in the name of > "community" of course. Nobody I know is saying that. Of course the more you contribute, the more say you have in a project. All I see is people pointing out that such influence should be earned, not dictated by creating special rights for certain companies. > The FSF has repeatedly refused to take down RMS? anti-java rant "the > java trap" article even while it has been renedered obsolete years > ago, the moment Sun Microsystems decided to release Java SE as Free > Software. As far as I know the FSF celebrated that release: http://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-welcomes-gpl-java.html And explained the Java Trap is no more by adding a giant "Headnote" to their old article explaining that "the Java language as such is no longer a trap": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html > But hey, that?s me and my probably wrong, baseless and biased > opinions, I?m sure. Cheers, Mark From simon at webmink.com Thu Apr 28 11:16:17 2011 From: simon at webmink.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:16:17 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <4DB94289.9010008@redhat.com> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303986606.3459.24.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <4DB94289.9010008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <5678FDFA-AC08-45DB-9F80-52803C6397C6@webmink.com> On 28 Apr 2011, at 11:33, Andrew Haley wrote: > On 28/04/11 11:30, Mark Wielaard wrote: >> >> - Get rid of the SCA. Commit to using the GPL for everything. >> People should be able to be members of the community without >> having to assign all their rights on non-reciprocal terms to >> Oracle. > > I'd like to respond to that, but shouldn't we drop gb-discuss from > the groups list to do so? We're getting off-topic. Given we are discussing governance I suggest we drop discuss@ instead. My comments only appear there, for example. S. From simon at webmink.com Thu Apr 28 11:27:52 2011 From: simon at webmink.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:27:52 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <1303987730.3459.29.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303987730.3459.29.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> Message-ID: <5A7CB22B-23F4-4F05-ADA0-4B3B1C4F0CE4@webmink.com> On 28 Apr 2011, at 11:48, Mark Wielaard wrote: > On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 06:56 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: >> >> The FSF has repeatedly refused to take down RMS? anti-java rant "the >> java trap" article even while it has been renedered obsolete years >> ago, the moment Sun Microsystems decided to release Java SE as Free >> Software. > > As far as I know the FSF celebrated that release: > http://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-welcomes-gpl-java.html > And explained the Java Trap is no more by adding a giant "Headnote" to > their old article explaining that "the Java language as such is no > longer a trap": > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html Indeed, I have a video of RMS asserting that the Java Trap no longer applies to Java - see http://wmk.me/JavaTrap to view it. S. From fcassia at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 12:45:21 2011 From: fcassia at gmail.com (Fernando Cassia) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:45:21 -0300 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <5A7CB22B-23F4-4F05-ADA0-4B3B1C4F0CE4@webmink.com> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303987730.3459.29.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <5A7CB22B-23F4-4F05-ADA0-4B3B1C4F0CE4@webmink.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Simon Phipps wrote: > Indeed, I have a video of RMS asserting that the Java Trap no longer applies to Java - see http://wmk.me/JavaTrap to view it. I was speaking to the strange reluctance to pull it down, specially when some search requests end up with "the java trap" among the first results. Would the FSF be OK with an article titled "The Free Software Trap" even if it includes a headline on top saying "this is no longer the case".? In any case, the FSF told me it?ll "stay there forever". --- > I wonder why does that article still need be on- > line?. It'll stay there forever, but yes, it will be updated to reflect OpenJDK. -- Matt Lee Campaigns Manager Free Software Foundation --- FC -- "It begins with a?blessing And it?ends?with a?curse; Making life easy, By making it worse;" --?Kevin Ayers From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Fri Apr 29 01:06:49 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 02:06:49 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <5A7CB22B-23F4-4F05-ADA0-4B3B1C4F0CE4@webmink.com> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303987730.3459.29.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <5A7CB22B-23F4-4F05-ADA0-4B3B1C4F0CE4@webmink.com> Message-ID: On 28 April 2011 12:27, Simon Phipps wrote: > > On 28 Apr 2011, at 11:48, Mark Wielaard wrote: > >> On Thu, 2011-04-28 at 06:56 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: >>> >>> The FSF has repeatedly refused to take down RMS? anti-java rant "the >>> java trap" article even while it has been renedered obsolete years >>> ago, the moment Sun Microsystems decided to release Java SE as Free >>> Software. >> >> As far as I know the FSF celebrated that release: >> http://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-welcomes-gpl-java.html >> And explained the Java Trap is no more by adding a giant "Headnote" to >> their old article explaining that "the Java language as such is no >> longer a trap": >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html > > Indeed, I have a video of RMS asserting that the Java Trap no longer applies to Java - see http://wmk.me/JavaTrap to view it. > > S. > > On the subject of videos and FOSDEM, I've finally found time to start sorting out the recordings from FOSDEM 2011. You can now get Simon's talk from the Free Java event, "Lessons Open Sourcing Java Taught Me", which included discussion on the governance board, at the following URL: http://www.archive.org/details/fosdem_2011_free_java_lessons_open_sourcing_java_taught_me -- Andrew :-) Support Free Java! Contribute to GNU Classpath and IcedTea http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath http://icedtea.classpath.org PGP Key: F5862A37 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EA30 D855 D50F 90CD F54D ?0698 0713 C3ED F586 2A37 From neugens at limasoftware.net Fri Apr 29 17:26:36 2011 From: neugens at limasoftware.net (Mario Torre) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:26:36 +0200 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <5678FDFA-AC08-45DB-9F80-52803C6397C6@webmink.com> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303986606.3459.24.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <4DB94289.9010008@redhat.com> <5678FDFA-AC08-45DB-9F80-52803C6397C6@webmink.com> Message-ID: <1304097996.3099.0.camel@galactica> Il giorno gio, 28/04/2011 alle 12.16 +0100, Simon Phipps ha scritto: > On 28 Apr 2011, at 11:33, Andrew Haley wrote: > > > On 28/04/11 11:30, Mark Wielaard wrote: > >> > >> - Get rid of the SCA. Commit to using the GPL for everything. > >> People should be able to be members of the community without > >> having to assign all their rights on non-reciprocal terms to > >> Oracle. > > > > I'd like to respond to that, but shouldn't we drop gb-discuss from > > the groups list to do so? We're getting off-topic. > > Given we are discussing governance I suggest we drop discuss@ instead. My comments only appear there, for example. > > S. No please, this is an important topic, valid for discuss, not just specific to gb (besides, I don't want to subscribe to the new mailing list in the middle of a thread :). Cheers, Mario -- pgp key: http://subkeys.pgp.net/ PGP Key ID: 80F240CF Fingerprint: BA39 9666 94EC 8B73 27FA FC7C 4086 63E3 80F2 40CF IcedRobot: www.icedrobot.org Proud GNU Classpath developer: http://www.classpath.org/ Read About us at: http://planet.classpath.org OpenJDK: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/caciocavallo/ Please, support open standards: http://endsoftpatents.org/ From gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org Fri Apr 29 20:12:42 2011 From: gnu_andrew at member.fsf.org (Dr Andrew John Hughes) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:12:42 +0100 Subject: OpenJDK Governing Board Minutes: 20011/4/21 In-Reply-To: <1304097996.3099.0.camel@galactica> References: <20110427204523.E5F53AAB@eggemoggin.niobe.net> <1303982235.3459.13.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <1303986606.3459.24.camel@springer.wildebeest.org> <4DB94289.9010008@redhat.com> <5678FDFA-AC08-45DB-9F80-52803C6397C6@webmink.com> <1304097996.3099.0.camel@galactica> Message-ID: On 29 April 2011 18:26, Mario Torre wrote: > Il giorno gio, 28/04/2011 alle 12.16 +0100, Simon Phipps ha scritto: >> On 28 Apr 2011, at 11:33, Andrew Haley wrote: >> >> > On 28/04/11 11:30, Mark Wielaard wrote: >> >> >> >> - Get rid of the SCA. Commit to using the GPL for everything. >> >> ?People should be able to be members of the community without >> >> ?having to assign all their rights on non-reciprocal terms to >> >> ?Oracle. >> > >> > I'd like to respond to that, but shouldn't we drop gb-discuss from >> > the groups list to do so? ?We're getting off-topic. >> >> Given we are discussing governance I suggest we drop discuss@ instead. My comments only appear there, for example. >> >> S. > > No please, this is an important topic, valid for discuss, not just > specific to gb (besides, I don't want to subscribe to the new mailing > list in the middle of a thread :). > This is exactly why I CCed discuss@ in the first place instead of allowing this to be hidden away on a minority list. IMHO, the two lists should be merged. gb-discuss is not sufficiently high traffic to warrant a separate list from discuss. - Andrew :-) Support Free Java! Contribute to GNU Classpath and IcedTea http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath http://icedtea.classpath.org PGP Key: F5862A37 (https://keys.indymedia.org/) Fingerprint = EA30 D855 D50F 90CD F54D ?0698 0713 C3ED F586 2A37