From martinrb at google.com Wed Aug 1 05:03:41 2018 From: martinrb at google.com (Martin Buchholz) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 22:03:41 -0700 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- investigating source code management options for the JDK sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Both Facebook and Google have been using mercurial to access very large repositories https://code.fb.com/core-data/scaling-mercurial-at-facebook/ and mercurial is currently evolving rapidly ( https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/ChangesetEvolution), but I don't know what effects this might have on openjdk development long term. Openjdk mercurial extensions keep being broken by changes to the internal python API, which is disappointing. https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/CompatibilityRules From joe.darcy at oracle.com Thu Aug 2 04:05:29 2018 From: joe.darcy at oracle.com (joe darcy) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 21:05:29 -0700 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- investigating source code management options for the JDK sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: PS I presented a slide deck http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf and led a discussion about Skara on the first day of the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop (http://openjdk.java.net/workshop). Within a few days of the workshop ending, I'll post a summary of the discussions to the list. Cheers, -Joe On 7/26/2018 8:42 PM, joe darcy wrote: > Hello, > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a > fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in > February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and > supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under > http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically > conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to > one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since > 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more > efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third > parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both > seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes > to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK > source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, > and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 > sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time > of local operations, etc. > > ??? * Space efficiency > > ??? * Usability in different geographies > > ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, > and Windows > > ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the > projected growth of its history over the next decade > > ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices > > ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of > review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project > will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > I propose to lead the project with the initial reviewers including but > not limited to Tim Bell (tbell), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson > (erikj), Tiep Vo (tiep), Tony Squier (squierts), and Robin Westberg > (rwestberg). > > We suggest the build group sponsor this work. > > Changing the bug tracking system is out of scope for this project and > is *not* under consideration. > > Comments? > > Cheers, > > -Joe > From martijnverburg at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 07:13:19 2018 From: martijnverburg at gmail.com (Martijn Verburg) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 08:13:19 +0100 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- investigating source code management options for the JDK sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for this Joe, really helpful material. I'll add my support (FWIW) for the more cautious approach of investigating only changing the SCM to begin with and assuming that occurs only then exploring / discussing other workflow changes and tooling assistance for that workflow. Cheers, Martijn On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 at 05:06, joe darcy wrote: > PS I presented a slide deck > > http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf > > and led a discussion about Skara on the first day of the OpenJDK > Committers? Workshop (http://openjdk.java.net/workshop). Within a few > days of the workshop ending, I'll post a summary of the discussions to > the list. > > Cheers, > > -Joe > > > On 7/26/2018 8:42 PM, joe darcy wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a > > fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in > > February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and > > supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under > > http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically > > conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to > > one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since > > 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more > > efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third > > parties. > > > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both > > seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes > > to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK > > source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, > > and including options hosted by third parties. > > > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 > > sources under different providers. > > > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > > > * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time > > of local operations, etc. > > > > * Space efficiency > > > > * Usability in different geographies > > > > * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, > > and Windows > > > > * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the > > projected growth of its history over the next decade > > > > * Support for general JDK code review practices > > > > * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of > > review and processes > > > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project > > will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > > > I propose to lead the project with the initial reviewers including but > > not limited to Tim Bell (tbell), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson > > (erikj), Tiep Vo (tiep), Tony Squier (squierts), and Robin Westberg > > (rwestberg). > > > > We suggest the build group sponsor this work. > > > > Changing the bug tracking system is out of scope for this project and > > is *not* under consideration. > > > > Comments? > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Joe > > > > From neugens at redhat.com Thu Aug 2 10:23:45 2018 From: neugens at redhat.com (Mario Torre) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:23:45 +0200 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- investigating source code management options for the JDK sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: """ Reactions ondiscuss at ojnand elsewhere range from: * The only possible choice is github ftw! * You can take hg, mq, and webrev.ksh out of my cold, dead hands """ I think we've more civilised than that ;) However, I'll die before you can switch to Git! Also, the slides you posted are very interesting, I'm not very sure about the last python stats though, I think you may find this one interesting too: https://www.openhub.net/p/python I don't know how openhub does the collection, but there seems to be a difference between the reddit thread data and the one on openhub, clearly there's been a spike in contributions when they did the shift to github, there hasn't been a spike in activity though (contribution per month), does it means more people contributing less code perhaps? Maybe longer contribution times? That may be simple patches and fixes or large changes that have to go through a number of iterations before getting in. Also, how do we measure the quality of those contributions? Also, the reddit thread has a good hint, previous commit were done by maintainers, thus hiding the real number of external contributors, it's very well possible that the spike we see is just the same number of long time contributors now committing the code directly, this may be supported by the relatively flat activity line. Just material for thoughts, but I'm not sure that we want to base our decision purely on the python experience, or maybe somebody should ask them the real effects of the move, also considering that those stats, if anything, can be attributed to github, not to git, so we once again go back to square one, as much as we say that git != github the reality is that when we think about the benefits of git we all have the github model in mind, and so we are inevitably skewed (in one direction or another). Cheers, Mario On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:05 AM, joe darcy wrote: > PS I presented a slide deck > > http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf > > and led a discussion about Skara on the first day of the OpenJDK Committers? > Workshop (http://openjdk.java.net/workshop). Within a few days of the > workshop ending, I'll post a summary of the discussions to the list. > > Cheers, > > -Joe > > > > On 7/26/2018 8:42 PM, joe darcy wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a >> fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in February >> 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and supporting projects has >> been hosted in Mercurial repositories under http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. >> Code reviews of JDK changes are typically conducted as discussions in >> mailing lists over small patches sent to one or more lists or over webrevs >> hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since 2008, many open source projects have >> successfully adopted more efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases >> provided by third parties. >> >> In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both seasoned >> committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes to investigate >> alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK source code, including >> options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, and including options hosted >> by third parties. >> >> The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 >> sources under different providers. >> >> The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: >> >> * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time of >> local operations, etc. >> >> * Space efficiency >> >> * Usability in different geographies >> >> * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, and >> Windows >> >> * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the projected >> growth of its history over the next decade >> >> * Support for general JDK code review practices >> >> * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of >> review and processes >> >> If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers >> substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project will >> shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. >> >> I propose to lead the project with the initial reviewers including but not >> limited to Tim Bell (tbell), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), >> Tiep Vo (tiep), Tony Squier (squierts), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). >> >> We suggest the build group sponsor this work. >> >> Changing the bug tracking system is out of scope for this project and is >> *not* under consideration. >> >> Comments? >> >> Cheers, >> >> -Joe >> > -- Mario Torre Associate Manager, Software Engineering Red Hat GmbH 9704 A60C B4BE A8B8 0F30 9205 5D7E 4952 3F65 7898 From joe.darcy at oracle.com Mon Aug 13 05:26:36 2018 From: joe.darcy at oracle.com (joe darcy) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 22:26:36 -0700 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: PPS A repacked sample git repo, as alluded to earlier in this thread and as discussed in the Skara presentation from the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop, equivalent to a recent snapshot of JDK 12 is available for browsing and cloning from: ??? git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk This import preserves the contents and formatting of commit messages. We've had some initial discussions on how rewriting the exiting JDK commit messages could allow better integration with git-based tooling. This git repo is a sample to allow inspection and experimentation. It is not meant to imply a commitment to a particular SCM or hosting provider. Enjoy, -Joe On 8/1/2018 9:05 PM, joe darcy wrote: > PS I presented a slide deck > > http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf > > and led a discussion about Skara on the first day of the OpenJDK > Committers? Workshop (http://openjdk.java.net/workshop). Within a few > days of the workshop ending, I'll post a summary of the discussions to > the list. > > Cheers, > > -Joe > From shade at redhat.com Mon Aug 13 07:51:22 2018 From: shade at redhat.com (Aleksey Shipilev) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:51:22 +0200 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 08/13/2018 07:26 AM, joe darcy wrote: > PPS A repacked sample git repo, as alluded to earlier in this thread and as discussed in the Skara > presentation from the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop, equivalent to a recent snapshot of JDK 12 is > available for browsing and cloning from: > > ??? git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk > Nice! Some performance data from Germany: $ time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git Cloning into 'jdk'... remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), pack-reused 0 Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 5.32 MiB/s, done. Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. real 1m25.508s user 1m8.522s sys 0m6.595s For the comparison, pulling the .hg workspace snapshot: $ time (curl https://builds.shipilev.net/workspaces/jdk-jdk.tar.xz | tar xJf -; cd jdk-jdk; hg pull; hg up;) % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 752M 100 752M 0 0 5673k 0 0:02:15 0:02:15 --:--:-- 5737k pulling from http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk searching for changes adding changesets adding manifests adding file changes added 116 changesets with 1065 changes to 858 files new changesets cf34c71ca27c:802f7e5e7e6b (run 'hg update' to get a working copy) 66288 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved real 2m31.941s user 1m35.735s sys 0m22.859s It looks that the limiting factor here is the actual network bandwidth. So, the performance is in the same ballpark, and if .hg would be smaller (my experiments saw 1.3x decreases with enabling some Mercurial options), we can get this down to 2 minutes. -Aleksey From forax at univ-mlv.fr Mon Aug 13 11:40:05 2018 From: forax at univ-mlv.fr (Remi Forax) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:40:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> from an island on the atlantic coast of France: time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git Cloning into 'jdk'... remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), pack-reused 0 Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 1.49 MiB/s, done. Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. real 3m22.779s user 1m9.630s sys 0m12.783s hg clone for me is 24 minutes (when there is no connection reset by peer). The fact that github as mirrors in Europe is a huge win. R?mi ----- Mail original ----- > De: "Aleksey Shipilev" > ?: "joe darcy" , "discuss" > Envoy?: Lundi 13 Ao?t 2018 09:51:22 > Objet: Re: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available > On 08/13/2018 07:26 AM, joe darcy wrote: >> PPS A repacked sample git repo, as alluded to earlier in this thread and as >> discussed in the Skara >> presentation from the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop, equivalent to a recent >> snapshot of JDK 12 is >> available for browsing and cloning from: >> >> ??? git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git >> ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk >> > > Nice! Some performance data from Germany: > > $ time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > Cloning into 'jdk'... > remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. > remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. > remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), pack-reused 0 > Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 5.32 MiB/s, done. > Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. > Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. > > real 1m25.508s > user 1m8.522s > sys 0m6.595s > > For the comparison, pulling the .hg workspace snapshot: > > $ time (curl https://builds.shipilev.net/workspaces/jdk-jdk.tar.xz | tar xJf -; > cd jdk-jdk; hg pull; > hg up;) > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed > 100 752M 100 752M 0 0 5673k 0 0:02:15 0:02:15 --:--:-- 5737k > pulling from http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk > searching for changes > adding changesets > adding manifests > adding file changes > added 116 changesets with 1065 changes to 858 files > new changesets cf34c71ca27c:802f7e5e7e6b > (run 'hg update' to get a working copy) > 66288 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved > > > real 2m31.941s > user 1m35.735s > sys 0m22.859s > > It looks that the limiting factor here is the actual network bandwidth. So, the > performance is in > the same ballpark, and if .hg would be smaller (my experiments saw 1.3x > decreases with enabling some > Mercurial options), we can get this down to 2 minutes. > > -Aleksey From neugens.limasoftware at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 14:37:30 2018 From: neugens.limasoftware at gmail.com (Mario Torre) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:37:30 +0200 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> References: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> Message-ID: Nice, however I would not like to rely on GitHub. What if it?s down in the middle of a security errata? Cheers, Mario On Mon 13. Aug 2018 at 13:40, Remi Forax wrote: > from an island on the atlantic coast of France: > > time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > Cloning into 'jdk'... > remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. > remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. > remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), > pack-reused 0 > Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 1.49 MiB/s, done. > Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. > Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. > > real 3m22.779s > user 1m9.630s > sys 0m12.783s > > hg clone for me is 24 minutes (when there is no connection reset by peer). > > The fact that github as mirrors in Europe is a huge win. > > R?mi > > ----- Mail original ----- > > De: "Aleksey Shipilev" > > ?: "joe darcy" , "discuss" < > discuss at openjdk.java.net> > > Envoy?: Lundi 13 Ao?t 2018 09:51:22 > > Objet: Re: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked > git repo of JDK 12 sources now available > > > On 08/13/2018 07:26 AM, joe darcy wrote: > >> PPS A repacked sample git repo, as alluded to earlier in this thread > and as > >> discussed in the Skara > >> presentation from the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop, equivalent to a > recent > >> snapshot of JDK 12 is > >> available for browsing and cloning from: > >> > >> git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > >> https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk > >> > > > > Nice! Some performance data from Germany: > > > > $ time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > > Cloning into 'jdk'... > > remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. > > remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. > > remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), > pack-reused 0 > > Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 5.32 MiB/s, done. > > Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. > > Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. > > > > real 1m25.508s > > user 1m8.522s > > sys 0m6.595s > > > > For the comparison, pulling the .hg workspace snapshot: > > > > $ time (curl https://builds.shipilev.net/workspaces/jdk-jdk.tar.xz | > tar xJf -; > > cd jdk-jdk; hg pull; > > hg up;) > > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time > Current > > Dload Upload Total Spent Left > Speed > > 100 752M 100 752M 0 0 5673k 0 0:02:15 0:02:15 --:--:-- > 5737k > > pulling from http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk > > searching for changes > > adding changesets > > adding manifests > > adding file changes > > added 116 changesets with 1065 changes to 858 files > > new changesets cf34c71ca27c:802f7e5e7e6b > > (run 'hg update' to get a working copy) > > 66288 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved > > > > > > real 2m31.941s > > user 1m35.735s > > sys 0m22.859s > > > > It looks that the limiting factor here is the actual network bandwidth. > So, the > > performance is in > > the same ballpark, and if .hg would be smaller (my experiments saw 1.3x > > decreases with enabling some > > Mercurial options), we can get this down to 2 minutes. > > > > -Aleksey > From martijnverburg at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 14:57:12 2018 From: martijnverburg at gmail.com (Martijn Verburg) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:57:12 +0100 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> Message-ID: Would be interesting to compare GitHub uptime vs OpenJDK hosted uptime in the past year (honestly couldn?t guess at which has more 9?s). On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 15:38, Mario Torre wrote: > Nice, however I would not like to rely on GitHub. What if it?s down in the > middle of a security errata? > > Cheers, > Mario > On Mon 13. Aug 2018 at 13:40, Remi Forax wrote: > > > from an island on the atlantic coast of France: > > > > time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > > Cloning into 'jdk'... > > remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. > > remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. > > remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), > > pack-reused 0 > > Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 1.49 MiB/s, done. > > Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. > > Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. > > > > real 3m22.779s > > user 1m9.630s > > sys 0m12.783s > > > > hg clone for me is 24 minutes (when there is no connection reset by > peer). > > > > The fact that github as mirrors in Europe is a huge win. > > > > R?mi > > > > ----- Mail original ----- > > > De: "Aleksey Shipilev" > > > ?: "joe darcy" , "discuss" < > > discuss at openjdk.java.net> > > > Envoy?: Lundi 13 Ao?t 2018 09:51:22 > > > Objet: Re: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked > > git repo of JDK 12 sources now available > > > > > On 08/13/2018 07:26 AM, joe darcy wrote: > > >> PPS A repacked sample git repo, as alluded to earlier in this thread > > and as > > >> discussed in the Skara > > >> presentation from the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop, equivalent to a > > recent > > >> snapshot of JDK 12 is > > >> available for browsing and cloning from: > > >> > > >> git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > > >> https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk > > >> > > > > > > Nice! Some performance data from Germany: > > > > > > $ time git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > > > Cloning into 'jdk'... > > > remote: Counting objects: 881253, done. > > > remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. > > > remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729), > > pack-reused 0 > > > Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 5.32 MiB/s, done. > > > Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. > > > Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. > > > > > > real 1m25.508s > > > user 1m8.522s > > > sys 0m6.595s > > > > > > For the comparison, pulling the .hg workspace snapshot: > > > > > > $ time (curl https://builds.shipilev.net/workspaces/jdk-jdk.tar.xz | > > tar xJf -; > > > cd jdk-jdk; hg pull; > > > hg up;) > > > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time > > Current > > > Dload Upload Total Spent Left > > Speed > > > 100 752M 100 752M 0 0 5673k 0 0:02:15 0:02:15 > --:--:-- > > 5737k > > > pulling from http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk > > > searching for changes > > > adding changesets > > > adding manifests > > > adding file changes > > > added 116 changesets with 1065 changes to 858 files > > > new changesets cf34c71ca27c:802f7e5e7e6b > > > (run 'hg update' to get a working copy) > > > 66288 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files > unresolved > > > > > > > > > real 2m31.941s > > > user 1m35.735s > > > sys 0m22.859s > > > > > > It looks that the limiting factor here is the actual network bandwidth. > > So, the > > > performance is in > > > the same ballpark, and if .hg would be smaller (my experiments saw 1.3x > > > decreases with enabling some > > > Mercurial options), we can get this down to 2 minutes. > > > > > > -Aleksey > > > -- Cheers, Martijn (Sent from Gmail Mobile) From joe.darcy at oracle.com Mon Aug 13 20:10:32 2018 From: joe.darcy at oracle.com (joe darcy) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:10:32 -0700 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> Message-ID: On 8/13/2018 7:37 AM, Mario Torre wrote: > Nice, however I would not like to rely on GitHub. What if it?s down in the > middle of a security errata? > > It would of course be prudent and mitigate risk to have mirrors of the JDK code hosted on multiple independent providers. Cheers, -Joe From maurizio.cimadamore at oracle.com Tue Aug 14 16:32:50 2018 From: maurizio.cimadamore at oracle.com (Maurizio Cimadamore) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:32:50 +0100 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, just for fun, I put together a small script which performs a shallow and sparse clone of the langtools sub-parts of the JDK repo (it is sometimes very handy to be able to work on a subset of the JDK, to minimize clone time and disk space). The script is here: http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~mcimadamore/misc/lt.clone-langtools.sh Depending on whether the 'depth ' option is specified or not (and how big it is), the overall size of the repo goes from ~200M (with depth = 1) to ~350M (without depth - e.g. no shallow clone). Cheers Maurizio On 13/08/18 06:26, joe darcy wrote: > PPS A repacked sample git repo, as alluded to earlier in this thread > and as discussed in the Skara presentation from the OpenJDK > Committers? Workshop, equivalent to a recent snapshot of JDK 12 is > available for browsing and cloning from: > > ??? git clone https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk > > This import preserves the contents and formatting of commit messages. > We've had some initial discussions on how rewriting the exiting JDK > commit messages could allow better integration with git-based tooling. > > This git repo is a sample to allow inspection and experimentation. It > is not meant to imply a commitment to a particular SCM or hosting > provider. > > Enjoy, > > -Joe > > On 8/1/2018 9:05 PM, joe darcy wrote: >> PS I presented a slide deck >> >> http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf >> >> and led a discussion about Skara on the first day of the OpenJDK >> Committers? Workshop (http://openjdk.java.net/workshop). Within a few >> days of the workshop ending, I'll post a summary of the discussions >> to the list. >> >> Cheers, >> >> -Joe >> > From joe.darcy at oracle.com Tue Aug 14 18:59:46 2018 From: joe.darcy at oracle.com (joe darcy) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 11:59:46 -0700 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> Message-ID: PS FYI, I've also imported the project into gitlab: ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git -Joe On 8/13/2018 1:10 PM, joe darcy wrote: > On 8/13/2018 7:37 AM, Mario Torre wrote: >> Nice, however I would not like to rely on GitHub. What if it?s down >> in the >> middle of a security errata? >> >> > > It would of course be prudent and mitigate risk to have mirrors of the > JDK code hosted on multiple independent providers. > > Cheers, > > -Joe From forax at univ-mlv.fr Tue Aug 14 19:11:18 2018 From: forax at univ-mlv.fr (forax at univ-mlv.fr) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 21:11:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> Message-ID: <1074341931.105966.1534273878513.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> ----- Mail original ----- > De: "joe darcy" > ?: "Mario Torre" , "Remi Forax" > Cc: "discuss" > Envoy?: Mardi 14 Ao?t 2018 20:59:46 > Objet: Re: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available > PS FYI, I've also imported the project into gitlab: > > ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > -Joe >From the same island but not during office hours (it is 9pm here) time git clone https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git Cloning into 'jdk'... remote: Enumerating objects: 881253, done. remote: Counting objects: 100% (881253/881253), done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (160363/160363), done. remote: Total 881253 (delta 665729), reused 881253 (delta 665729) Receiving objects: 100% (881253/881253), 258.61 MiB | 1.96 MiB/s, done. Resolving deltas: 100% (665729/665729), done. Checking out files: 100% (66258/66258), done. real 2m42.024s user 1m9.712s sys 0m13.599s it's fast ! even faster than github but i suppose it's more because here, they are less people accessing internet out of the office hours. cheers, R?mi > > On 8/13/2018 1:10 PM, joe darcy wrote: >> On 8/13/2018 7:37 AM, Mario Torre wrote: >>> Nice, however I would not like to rely on GitHub. What if it?s down >>> in the >>> middle of a security errata? >>> >>> >> >> It would of course be prudent and mitigate risk to have mirrors of the >> JDK code hosted on multiple independent providers. >> >> Cheers, >> > > -Joe From ngortheone at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 14:04:06 2018 From: ngortheone at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?0JjQs9C+0YDRjCDQkNC90YLQvtC90L7Qsg==?=) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:04:06 +0000 Subject: Call for Discussion: New Project: Skara -- sample repacked git repo of JDK 12 sources now available In-Reply-To: References: <775612284.33901.1534160405303.JavaMail.zimbra@u-pem.fr> Message-ID: HI everyone I am reading this thread a bit differently. There is a problem: in a current state user's/contributors' experience sucks. It makes it hard for new contributors to get up to speed and be productive. And then there are different proposals how to improve current state of things: - GitHub(or other similar hosted platform) , as I understand, mostly because of a friendly and intuitive UI. But there are drawbacks to, code review process for large codebases is beyond terrible. - Switch to git since more people are familiar with it. Which is also "out of frying pan into a fire" kind of change. There is little benefit, mercurial matches 99% of gits functionality, and since losing commit history is not acceptable migrating everything to git will be a pain. Risk/cost-reward ratio is questionable. But taking a step back from debating specific technologies - should we instead think how to make current user experience better in an evolutionary way, instead of revolutionary? IMHO we should be asking questions like similar to below, instead of debating git over mercurial and github over something else: - How can we make UI of http://hg.openjdk.java.net/ nicer? - How can we make code review process experience better and keep benefits if current mailing lists? (maybe introduce some sort of UI, not everyone is happy sending patches over email. Especially younger auditory that is used to github) ..etc. Otherwise this debate will boil down to oldfags (with hg and mailing lists) vs newfags (with git and github) - and oldfags will win, since they have more power/control. We need to direct this conversation into a productive route. Thanks. --Ihor ?On 8/15/18, 1:31 AM, "discuss on behalf of joe darcy" wrote: PS FYI, I've also imported the project into gitlab: https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git -Joe On 8/13/2018 1:10 PM, joe darcy wrote: > On 8/13/2018 7:37 AM, Mario Torre wrote: >> Nice, however I would not like to rely on GitHub. What if it?s down >> in the >> middle of a security errata? >> >> > > It would of course be prudent and mitigate risk to have mirrors of the > JDK code hosted on multiple independent providers. > > Cheers, > > -Joe From tim.bell at oracle.com Wed Aug 29 21:43:32 2018 From: tim.bell at oracle.com (Tim Bell) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:43:32 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <5B871384.2000806@oracle.com> Vote: yes Furthermore, in my role as Build Group leader [1], I confirm the Build Group will sponsor the Skara Project if the Project is approved. Tim [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#build On 08/29/18 10:58, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the > Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. From bradford.wetmore at oracle.com Wed Aug 29 22:46:01 2018 From: bradford.wetmore at oracle.com (Bradford Wetmore) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:46:01 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <5B871384.2000806@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> <5B871384.2000806@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: Yes (after I just got really familiar with some mercurial hacks, having a snappier clone would certainly be appreciated...) Brad On 8/29/2018 2:43 PM, Tim Bell wrote: > Vote: yes > > Furthermore, in my role as Build Group leader [1], I confirm the Build > Group will sponsor the Skara Project if the Project is approved. > > Tim > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#build > > On 08/29/18 10:58, joe darcy wrote: >> I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the >> Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > From jesper.wilhelmsson at oracle.com Wed Aug 29 22:48:04 2018 From: jesper.wilhelmsson at oracle.com (jesper.wilhelmsson at oracle.com) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 00:48:04 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <012648D4-51DF-402F-80D8-BB08E6F5292A@oracle.com> Vote: yes /Jesper > On 29 Aug 2018, at 19:58, joe darcy wrote: > > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time of local operations, etc. > > * Space efficiency > > * Usability in different geographies > > * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, and Windows > > * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the projected growth of its history over the next decade > > * Support for general JDK code review practices > > * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to hosting providers: > > https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR (Compatibility & Specification Review) group (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion. Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From james.laskey at oracle.com Wed Aug 29 23:09:42 2018 From: james.laskey at oracle.com (James Laskey) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 20:09:42 -0300 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <31CB1522-5DF9-4310-A78B-18A1B57AEFBF@oracle.com> Vote: Yes Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:58 PM, joe darcy wrote: > > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time of local operations, etc. > > * Space efficiency > > * Usability in different geographies > > * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, and Windows > > * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the projected growth of its history over the next decade > > * Support for general JDK code review practices > > * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to hosting providers: > > https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR (Compatibility & Specification Review) group (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion. Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From mark.reinhold at oracle.com Wed Aug 29 23:45:50 2018 From: mark.reinhold at oracle.com (mark.reinhold at oracle.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:45:50 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <20180829164550.491720395@eggemoggin.niobe.net> Vote: yes - Mark From weijun.wang at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 00:13:31 2018 From: weijun.wang at oracle.com (Weijun Wang) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:13:31 +0800 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <0766FC03-9412-444A-9F0E-5D8C79220E83@oracle.com> Vote: yes --weijun > On Aug 30, 2018, at 1:58 AM, joe darcy wrote: > > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. From john.r.rose at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 01:25:02 2018 From: john.r.rose at oracle.com (John Rose) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:25:02 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <703DD357-D756-4DF6-BF43-BEA5A903801C@oracle.com> Vote: yes From stuart.marks at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 01:26:07 2018 From: stuart.marks at oracle.com (Stuart Marks) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:26:07 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: yes On 8/29/18 10:58 AM, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead > and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a fundamental > piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in February 2008, the source > code of different JDK releases and supporting projects has been hosted in > Mercurial repositories under http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK > changes are typically conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small > patches sent to one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. > Since 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more efficient > SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both seasoned > committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes to investigate > alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK source code, including > options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, and including options hosted by > third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 sources > under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time of local > operations, etc. > > ??? * Space efficiency > > ??? * Usability in different geographies > > ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, and Windows > > ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the projected > growth of its history over the next decade > > ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices > > ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of review > and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project will > shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion > (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) and was a > topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop > (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). A > range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of SCM for the > JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to hosting providers: > > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to three minutes > as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to adapt JDK > development practices to better conform to conventions on different SCMs. For > example, some syntax changes in JDK commit messages would work more naturally > with git tooling. Such prototypes would be published and made available for > comment. > > Joe is? a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR (Compatibility & > Specification Review) group (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead > of Project Coin (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and > inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: > Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository > (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik Duveblad > (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony Squier (squierts), > Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion. Votes must > be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this message is sufficient > if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From erik.helin at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 04:43:03 2018 From: erik.helin at oracle.com (Erik Helin) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 06:43:03 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: yes Thanks, Erik On 08/29/2018 07:58 PM, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the > Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. From openjdk at haupz.de Thu Aug 30 04:49:20 2018 From: openjdk at haupz.de (Michael Haupt) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 06:49:20 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <4C6D2483-92AD-423A-818F-06B15C271C13@haupz.de> Vote: yes. > Am 29.08.2018 um 19:58 schrieb joe darcy : > > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. From volker.simonis at sap.com Thu Aug 30 06:32:11 2018 From: volker.simonis at sap.com (Simonis, Volker) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 06:32:11 +0000 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <4C6D2483-92AD-423A-818F-06B15C271C13@haupz.de> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com>, <4C6D2483-92AD-423A-818F-06B15C271C13@haupz.de> Message-ID: <719E4CF0-DA56-4272-A034-6A3F876EE830@sap.com> Vote: yes > Am 30.08.2018 um 07:01 schrieb Michael Haupt : > > Vote: yes. > >> Am 29.08.2018 um 19:58 schrieb joe darcy : >> >> I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > > From per.liden at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 06:33:52 2018 From: per.liden at oracle.com (Per Liden) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:33:52 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <528890fd-873f-1387-7a64-bf17a57a5a94@oracle.com> Vote: yes /Per From laurent.daynes at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 06:36:21 2018 From: laurent.daynes at oracle.com (Laurent Daynes) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:36:21 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote:yes Laurent From magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 06:37:02 2018 From: magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com (Magnus Ihse Bursie) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:37:02 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <049c0f31-4f8d-bd4a-b15f-c06b17ad9154@oracle.com> Vote: yes /Magnus On 2018-08-29 19:58, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as > the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a > fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in > February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and > supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under > http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically > conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to > one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since > 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more > efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third > parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both > seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes > to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK > source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, > and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 > sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time > of local operations, etc. > > ??? * Space efficiency > > ??? * Usability in different geographies > > ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, > and Windows > > ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the > projected growth of its history over the next decade > > ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices > > ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of > review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project > will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion > (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) > and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop > (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). > A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of > SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to > hosting providers: > > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to > three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from > hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to > adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on > different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit > messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes > would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is? a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR > (Compatibility & Specification Review) group > (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin > (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and > inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: > Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository > (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik > Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony > Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion.? > Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this > message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From Alan.Bateman at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 07:26:16 2018 From: Alan.Bateman at oracle.com (Alan Bateman) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:26:16 +0100 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <4bcefba5-e231-a9f4-f2c4-b956941fe4ea@oracle.com> Vote: yes From nils.eliasson at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 07:43:14 2018 From: nils.eliasson at oracle.com (Nils Eliasson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 09:43:14 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <5B871384.2000806@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> <5B871384.2000806@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: yes / Nils From maurizio.cimadamore at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 08:25:03 2018 From: maurizio.cimadamore at oracle.com (Maurizio Cimadamore) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 09:25:03 +0100 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <1105d021-caf2-2e6c-4b96-3a034536279f@oracle.com> Vote: yes! Maurizio On 29/08/18 18:58, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as > the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a > fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in > February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and > supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under > http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically > conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to > one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since > 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more > efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third > parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both > seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes > to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK > source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, > and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 > sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time > of local operations, etc. > > ??? * Space efficiency > > ??? * Usability in different geographies > > ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, > and Windows > > ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the > projected growth of its history over the next decade > > ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices > > ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of > review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project > will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion > (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) > and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop > (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). > A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of > SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to > hosting providers: > > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to > three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from > hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to > adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on > different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit > messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes > would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is? a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR > (Compatibility & Specification Review) group > (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin > (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and > inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: > Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository > (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik > Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony > Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion.? > Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this > message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From chris.hegarty at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 10:17:51 2018 From: chris.hegarty at oracle.com (Chris Hegarty) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:17:51 +0100 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <0903E501-0BB0-4D68-8B8A-871B0E1E377A@oracle.com> > On 29 Aug 2018, at 18:58, joe darcy wrote: > > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. Vote: YES. -Chris. From daniel.fuchs at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 10:23:01 2018 From: daniel.fuchs at oracle.com (Daniel Fuchs) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:23:01 +0100 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: yes -- daniel On 29/08/2018 18:58, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the > Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > From markus.gronlund at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 10:52:47 2018 From: markus.gronlund at oracle.com (Markus Gronlund) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 03:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: yes Thanks Markus -----Original Message----- From: joe darcy Sent: den 29 augusti 2018 19:58 To: announce at openjdk.java.net Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third parties. In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, and including options hosted by third parties. The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 sources under different providers. The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time of local operations, etc. ??? * Space efficiency ??? * Usability in different geographies ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, and Windows ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the projected growth of its history over the next decade ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of review and processes If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. Skara previously had a call for discussion (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to hosting providers: ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from hg.openjdk.java.net. The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes would be published and made available for comment. Joe is? a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR (Compatibility & Specification Review) group (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion. Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. -Joe Darcy [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote From vicente.romero at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 13:25:29 2018 From: vicente.romero at oracle.com (Vicente Romero) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 09:25:29 -0400 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: vote: yes Vicente On 08/29/2018 01:58 PM, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as > the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a > fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in > February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and > supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under > http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically > conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to > one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since > 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more > efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third > parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both > seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes > to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK > source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, > and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 > sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time > of local operations, etc. > > ??? * Space efficiency > > ??? * Usability in different geographies > > ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, > and Windows > > ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the > projected growth of its history over the next decade > > ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices > > ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of > review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project > will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion > (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) > and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop > (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). > A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of > SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to > hosting providers: > > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to > three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from > hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to > adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on > different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit > messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes > would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is? a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR > (Compatibility & Specification Review) group > (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin > (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and > inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: > Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository > (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik > Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony > Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion.? > Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this > message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From mandy.chung at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 17:12:42 2018 From: mandy.chung at oracle.com (mandy chung) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:12:42 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <75da953e-f901-6ad1-cf83-60fdcb7d1cb1@oracle.com> Vote: yes Mandy From poonam.bajaj at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 17:39:25 2018 From: poonam.bajaj at oracle.com (Poonam Parhar) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:39:25 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <1804db55-475c-fbc8-3620-11c1546a8f5a@oracle.com> Vote: yes -Poonam On 8/29/18 10:58 AM, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as > the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a > fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in > February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and > supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under > http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically > conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to > one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since > 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more > efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third > parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both > seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes > to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK > source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, > and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 > sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > ??? * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time > of local operations, etc. > > ??? * Space efficiency > > ??? * Usability in different geographies > > ??? * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, > and Windows > > ??? * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the > projected growth of its history over the next decade > > ??? * Support for general JDK code review practices > > ??? * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of > review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers > substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project > will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion > (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) > and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop > (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). > A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of > SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to > hosting providers: > > ??? https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > ??? https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to > three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from > hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to > adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on > different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit > messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes > would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is? a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR > (Compatibility & Specification Review) group > (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin > (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and > inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: > Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository > (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik > Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony > Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion.? > Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this > message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote > From brent.christian at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 18:28:44 2018 From: brent.christian at oracle.com (Brent Christian) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:28:44 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <10f09579-a98a-b0f4-3b66-983ffd129001@oracle.com> Vote: Yes On 8/29/18 10:58 AM, joe darcy wrote: > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the > Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > From naoto.sato at oracle.com Thu Aug 30 19:05:02 2018 From: naoto.sato at oracle.com (Naoto Sato) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:05:02 -0700 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: Vote: yes Naoto From cthalinger at twitter.com Fri Aug 31 09:38:16 2018 From: cthalinger at twitter.com (Christian Thalinger) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:38:16 +0200 Subject: CFV: New Project: Skara In-Reply-To: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> References: <86ebdd98-0ac4-4f5f-9645-3fb3e4cfd344@oracle.com> Message-ID: <626509C3-25B4-451A-BC3B-2EBD847EA56E@twitter.com> Vote: yes > On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:58 PM, joe darcy wrote: > > I hereby propose the creation of the Skara Project with Joe Darcy as the Lead and the Build Group as the sponsoring Group. > > The source code management (SCM) system of a software project is a fundamental piece of its infrastructure and workflows. Starting in February 2008, the source code of different JDK releases and supporting projects has been hosted in Mercurial repositories under http://hg.openjdk.java.net/. Code reviews of JDK changes are typically conducted as discussions in mailing lists over small patches sent to one or more lists or over webrevs hosted on cr.openjdk.java.net. Since 2008, many open source projects have successfully adopted more efficient SCM and review tooling, in some cases provided by third parties. > > In order to help OpenJDK contributors be more productive, both seasoned committers and relative newcomers, the Skara project proposes to investigate alternative SCM and code review options for the JDK source code, including options based upon Git rather than Mercurial, and including options hosted by third parties. > > The Skara project intends to build prototypes of hosting the JDK 12 sources under different providers. > > The evaluation criteria to consider include but are not limited to: > > * Performance: time for clone operations from master repos, time of local operations, etc. > > * Space efficiency > > * Usability in different geographies > > * Support for common development environments such as Linux, Mac, and Windows > > * Able to easily host the entire history of the JDK and the projected growth of its history over the next decade > > * Support for general JDK code review practices > > * Programmatic APIs to enable process assistance and automation of review and processes > > If one or more prototypes indicate a different SCM arrangement offers substantial improvements over the current situation, the Skara project will shepherd a JEP to change the SCM for the JDK. > > Skara previously had a call for discussion (http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2018-July/004801.html) and was a topic at the OpenJDK Committers? Workshop (http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/Presentations/ocw-2018-08-01-skara.pdf). A range of passionate opinions were expressed regarding the choice of SCM for the JDK, but the prototype imports of the JDK sources to hosting providers: > > https://github.com/Project-Skara/jdk.git > https://gitlab.com/jddarcy/jdk.git > > have demonstrated much shorter clone times, on the order of one to three minutes as compared to fifteen minutes to over a half hour from hg.openjdk.java.net. > > The envisioned future iterations of prototypes could explore how to adapt JDK development practices to better conform to conventions on different SCMs. For example, some syntax changes in JDK commit messages would work more naturally with git tooling. Such prototypes would be published and made available for comment. > > Joe is a reviewer in the JDK project, the lead of the CSR (Compatibility & Specification Review) group (http://openjdk.java.net/groups/csr/), previous lead of Project Coin (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/coin/), initial moderator and inaugural release manager for OpenJDK 6, and was the lead for JEP 296: Consolidate the JDK Forest into a Single Repository (http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/296). > > Initial reviewers are Tim Bell (tbell), Joe Darcy (darcy), Erik Duveblad (ehelin), Erik Joelsson (erikj), Mark Reinhold (mr), Tony Squier (squierts), Tiep Vo (tiep), and Robin Westberg (rwestberg). > > Votes are due by September 12, 11 am Pacific Time. > > Only current OpenJDK Members [1] are eligible to vote on this motion. Votes must be cast in the open on the discuss list. Replying to this message is sufficient if your mail program honors the Reply-To header. > > For Lazy Consensus voting instructions, see [2]. > > -Joe Darcy > > [1] http://openjdk.java.net/census#members > [2] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/#new-project-vote >