Vetting JEP concepts?

[Andy Boothe]

David and Thomas,

Thank you both for the timely and insightful responses! They are greatly
appreciated! This has helped me understand the process in much more detail.

> Once you find a problem, next step is to hop onto the mailing list most
relevant to the problem, and see if others in the community feel like it is
as big/frequent of a problem that you say it is.

Great! Thank you for sharing the list!

> Good -- Why is ABC done this way (again, check ABC docs before hand)/When
I tried doing ABC, I experienced pain point XYZ
> Bad -- ABC feels poorly designed/ABC is wrong/ABC shouldn't be done this
way -- Understand, literal thousands of people have looked over even the
darkest corners of the JDK.

Absolutely right. I completely agree, but this is an important point that
bears repeating. Given that Java is one of - if not the - biggest platforms
in the world, I know the likelihood that I'm the first person to magically
see a problem is about 0%! And it's important to pursue any pain points or
insights I have through the lens of the entire community, knowing that many
folks have been focusing on this stuff for much longer than it took me to
type out any email. :)

> But JEPs come with a lot of red tape and require a significant amount of
investment from other parties. Therefore, we try to avoid JEPs if possible,
opting instead for more low-key processes (e.g., RFEs with CSRs).

Oof! I certainly didn't mean to start with the nuclear option! Clearly I
need to re-read JEP 1 a little more closely. Thank you for pointing that
out, Thomas!

Given these answers, I have a couple more follow-up questions, then
hopefully I can start being a little more independent:

1. To David's point, I (strongly) suspect that some/most/all of my ideas
have been considered and discussed before on this mailing list. What is the
best way to search the mail archives? I've done some Google searching and
came across gmane.io and
https://hixon10.github.io/openjdk-mailing-lists-search/. Are these the
preferred method(s)?
2. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but would this not a suitable
mailing list to start discussion, at least for some ideas? Naturally, if my
question is about Valhalla, then I would go to valhalla-dev, but what about
for more general Java-level questions?

Thank you again!

Andy Boothe

On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 2:30 AM Thomas Stüfe <thomas.stuefe at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Andy,
>
> David wrote a very good answer, I just wanted to expand on the last point
> a bit:
>
> JEPs are a means, not an end. One typically does not set out to write a
> JEP. Instead, one usually starts with a problem one wants to solve and
> discusses this on the mailing lists.
>
> If, during the discussion, we see that the problem fits certain criteria,
> a JEP would be needed. But JEPs come with a lot of red tape and require a
> significant amount of investment from other parties. Therefore, we try to
> avoid JEPs if possible, opting instead for more low-key processes
> (e.g., RFEs with CSRs).
>
> Cheers, Thomas
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 10:45 PM David Alayachew <davidalayachew at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Andy. Thanks for getting involved.
>>
>> As for how to approach, there's a few steps involved before writing up or
>> introducing JEP drafts.
>>
>> First thing is to find a problem that is either big enough or frequent
>> enough that a change makes sense. As for what a big/frequent enough problem
>> looks like, look at some of the JEP's -- in-flight, or delivered, that
>> address the problems.
>>
>> Once you find a problem, next step is to hop onto the mailing list most
>> relevant to the problem, and see if others in the community feel like it is
>> as big/frequent of a problem that you say it is. Here is the list of
>> mailing lists -- https://mail.openjdk.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> And if you want some traction, maybe cross post to the Java subreddit
>> (with mod approval beforehand!). As long as you are respectful, read the
>> documentation so you come informed, and don't jump to conclusions, you
>> should find helpful responses in both places. Examples below.
>>
>> Good -- Why is ABC done this way (again, check ABC docs before hand)/When
>> I tried doing ABC, I experienced pain point XYZ
>>
>> Bad -- ABC feels poorly designed/ABC is wrong/ABC shouldn't be done this
>> way -- Understand, literal thousands of people have looked over even the
>> darkest corners of the JDK.
>>
>> If your problem finds traction, next step is bringing up ideas on how to
>> solve it. This is not where you start typing up a JEP format. Instead,
>> introduce a solution and see if it gets anywhere. Fair warning, this is a
>> higher bar to reach, and is usually as far as most ideas go.
>>
>> If you manage to cross that bar, post again and someone here will be
>> happy to show you next steps.
>>
>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>> Thank you for reaching out!
>> David Alayachew
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 12:47 PM Andy Boothe <andy.boothe at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have a couple of ideas for JEPs. What is the best way to vet these
>>> concepts before I submit them to the official process? I'd like to confirm
>>> that these ideas haven't already been entertained before (I have already
>>> checked the existing draft JEPs), and I'd also like to make sure they are
>>> even interesting and viable before I waste anyone's time on the official
>>> committees.
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance for all feedback!
>>>
>>> Andy Boothe
>>> *Email*: andy.boothe at gmail.com
>>> *Mobile*: (979) 574-1089
>>>
>>
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