<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Andy,<div><br></div><div>No, this is not the list to discuss any ideas about changes in the JDK. This list is for OpenJDK Community questions. The mailing list info page David linked to has short summaries of what each list is supposed to be used for.</div><div><br></div><div>If you intend to start contributing to OpenJDK the best place to start is the OpenJDK Developers' Guide: <a href="https://openjdk.org/guide/">https://openjdk.org/guide/</a></div><div><br></div><div>There's plenty of advice there for how to proceed if you have an idea for a change in the JDK. If you have trouble finding the right list for some change you want to discuss you can find a Code Owners list at the end of that guide.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>/Jesper<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 15, 2024, at 18:18, Andy Boothe <andy.boothe@gmail.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif">David and Thomas,</font><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Thank you both for the timely and insightful responses! They are greatly appreciated! This has helped me understand the process in much more detail.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">> Once you find a problem, next step is to hop onto the mailing list most relevant to the problem, and see if others in the community feel like it is as big/frequent of a problem that you say it is.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Great! Thank you for sharing the list!</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">> Good -- Why is ABC done this way (again, check ABC docs before hand)/When I tried doing ABC, I experienced pain point XYZ</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">> Bad -- ABC feels poorly designed/ABC is wrong/ABC shouldn't be done this way -- Understand, literal thousands of people have looked over even the darkest corners of the JDK.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">Absolutely right. I completely agree, but this is an important point that bears repeating. Given that Java is one of - if not the - biggest platforms in the world, I know the likelihood that I'm the first person to magically see a problem is about 0%! And it's important to pursue any pain points or insights I have through the lens of the entire community, knowing that many folks have been focusing on this stuff for much longer than it took me to type out any email. :)</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">> But JEPs come with a lot of red tape and require a significant amount of investment from other parties. Therefore, we try to avoid JEPs if possible, opting instead for more low-key processes (e.g., RFEs with CSRs). </font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">Oof! I certainly didn't mean to start with the nuclear option! Clearly I need to re-read JEP 1 a little more closely. Thank you for pointing that out, Thomas!</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">Given these answers, I have a couple more follow-up questions, then hopefully I can start being a little more independent:</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">1. To David's point, I (strongly) suspect that some/most/all of my ideas have been considered and discussed before on this mailing list. What is the best way to search the mail archives? I've done some Google searching and came across <a href="http://gmane.io/">gmane.io</a> and <a href="https://hixon10.github.io/openjdk-mailing-lists-search/">https://hixon10.github.io/openjdk-mailing-lists-search/</a>. Are these the preferred method(s)?</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">2. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but would this not a suitable mailing list to start discussion, at least for some ideas? Naturally, if my question is about Valhalla, then I would go to valhalla-dev, but what about for more general Java-level questions?</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif">Thank you again!</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Andy Boothe</font></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 2:30 AM Thomas Stüfe <<a href="mailto:thomas.stuefe@gmail.com">thomas.stuefe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Andy,<div><br></div><div>David wrote a very good answer, I just wanted to expand on the last point a bit:</div><div><br></div><div>JEPs are a means, not an end. One typically does not set out to write a JEP. Instead, one usually starts with a problem one wants to solve and discusses this on the mailing lists. </div><div><br></div><div>If, during the discussion, we see that the problem fits certain criteria, a JEP would be needed. But JEPs come with a lot of red tape and require a significant amount of investment from other parties. Therefore, we try to avoid JEPs if possible, opting instead for more low-key processes (e.g., RFEs with CSRs). </div><div><br></div><div>Cheers, Thomas</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 10:45 PM David Alayachew <<a href="mailto:davidalayachew@gmail.com" target="_blank">davidalayachew@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Hello Andy. Thanks for getting involved.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">As for how to approach, there's a few steps involved before writing up or introducing JEP drafts.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">First thing is to find a problem that is either big enough or frequent enough that a change makes sense. As for what a big/frequent enough problem looks like, look at some of the JEP's -- in-flight, or delivered, that address the problems.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Once you find a problem, next step is to hop onto the mailing list most relevant to the problem, and see if others in the community feel like it is as big/frequent of a problem that you say it is. Here is the list of mailing lists -- <a href="https://mail.openjdk.org/mailman/listinfo" target="_blank">https://mail.openjdk.org/mailman/listinfo</a></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">And if you want some traction, maybe cross post to the Java subreddit (with mod approval beforehand!).
As long as you are respectful, read the documentation so you come informed, and don't jump to conclusions, you should find helpful responses in both places. Examples below.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Good -- Why is ABC done this way (again, check ABC docs before hand)/When I tried doing ABC, I experienced pain point XYZ</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Bad -- ABC feels poorly designed/ABC is wrong/ABC shouldn't be done this way -- Understand, literal thousands of people have looked over even the darkest corners of the JDK. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">If your problem finds traction, next step is bringing up ideas on how to solve it. This is not where you start typing up a JEP format. Instead, introduce a solution and see if it gets anywhere. Fair warning, this is a higher bar to reach, and is usually as far as most ideas go.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">If you manage to cross that bar, post again and someone here will be happy to show you next steps.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Let me know if you have any questions.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">Thank you for reaching out!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace">David Alayachew<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 12:47 PM Andy Boothe <<a href="mailto:andy.boothe@gmail.com" target="_blank">andy.boothe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>I have a couple of ideas for JEPs. What is the best way to vet these concepts before I submit them to the official process? I'd like to confirm that these ideas haven't already been entertained before (I have already checked the existing draft JEPs), and I'd also like to make sure they are even interesting and viable before I waste anyone's time on the official committees.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you in advance for all feedback!</div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Andy Boothe<div><b>Email</b>: <a href="mailto:andy.boothe@gmail.com" target="_blank">andy.boothe@gmail.com</a></div><div><b>Mobile</b>: (979) 574-1089<br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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