[rfc][icedtea-web] reconsider offline and xoffline

[Jiri Vanek]

On 02/13/2015 02:54 PM, Jacob Wisor wrote:
> On 02/13/2015 um 02:17 PM, Jiri Vanek wrote:
>>
...
>>>>
>>>> What about honoring it only in strict mode?
>>>
>>> AFAICT, strict mode is supposed to check only the syntax of a JNLP file a bit
>>> more vigorously. So it
>>> is about syntax, not about runtime or application behavior.
>>
>> I would rather say "it is forcing itw to be as close to specification as
>> possible" . But yes,
>> originally it came in as parser settings and you are right that any other
>> misuse of it is beyond
>> this patch if possible at all.
>>
>> But playing with words - strict is moreover ok here - it pretends the element
>> offline-allowed do not
>> exists.
>
> If it is really bothering you that much and you really want to have it in IcedTea-Web then I would

Id really does :(

> rather propose making it a specific feature of IcedTea-Web and therefor introduce a -offlineAllowed

That wuld kill my point. Now the -Xoffline is solving this, but people are still asking me, why it 
is not going offline, I reply put -Xoflfine to commandline, Then I got What is commandline? And at 
the end it somehow ends in .desktop launcher:(

SO Iwould like to have this bbehaviour default, but enble-able.

> switch. Please do not mix this with the semantics of the -strict switch. This way both
> functionalities can be used together or separately. The -strict switch should be left for /strict/

oook.

> /syntax/ checking only. I think IcedTea-Web (actually every software) should always follow the
> specification as closely as possible by default.
>
>>> There is really not much we can do here except to seek for a change in the
>>> specification. But is
>>> this really worth the cause? Maybe. But, it won't be before the release of
>>> Java 9 or Java 10 this
>>
>> :) 6 years?  It is hard to imagine universe beyond this time ....
>
> I know what you mean, especially when you look at the time it took to get from Java 6 to currently
> Java 8. But you also have to take the fallout of the economic repercussions on the OpenJDK
> developers of Sun's dissolution/merger with Oracle into account. Since Java 7, it seems like the
> Java world has got back on track again. However, Java did not really benefit from this, especially
> in the mobile sector, which is quite unfortunate. Well, this is what happens when people simply buy
> into a technology they do not understand ... but this is a story for another day.
>
> Anyway, you could propose an update to the JNLP specification at the JCP. It's open, isn't it? ;-)

Looking to the enthusiasm they listen to not oracle people...:(
>
>>> would come into effect. If some users are having trouble with incorrectly or
>>> sluggishly authored
>>> JNLP files then they should either contact their software vendors,
>>> administrators, or edit the JNLP
>>
>> And if those authors are gone? Afaik this is the main user space of javaws and
>> plugin now :(
>>
>> I'm adding those out-of-specification stuf only when I'm asked for. And for this
>> I'm askaed for few
>> years... And here I  Agree from hart - why to force the app run online, if it is
>> fully capable to
>> run offline?
>>
>>> files to adjust to their needs (because the location of the JNLP file itself
>>> does not matter). I
>>> think it would be no good if we would simply abandon the specification. Let's
>>> use the time and
>>> effort for something more productive, like implementing parts of the
>>> specification IcedTea-Web is
>>> missing. ;)
>>
>> Which are those you miss the most? I stopped tosearch for them, because i
>> stopped hearing complains
>> (but maybe its just become low usage of ITW)
>
> AFAICT, all the stuff about properly installing/uninstalling (with dependencies on non-app JNLP
> modules) and managing applications is missing. I may be wrong because I have not been able to follow
> IcedTea-Web's development more closely lately. But you seem to have added support for installing
> desktop links or something like that, so it is slowly moving into the right direction.

This is something I'm trying to do with offline+cache+desktop_integration. I think I'm on good way 
in this.

I have also some proof of concept about managing those applications via itweb-settings but it 
needs 	some more adaptations.


My idea why to use cache+offline for install is that it is already done. And itw consider 
application as installed when it is able to run, and that means unpacked in cache.

Except this "reconsider offline" it needs few more tweeks to the cache so it do not invlaidate so 
quickly.
>
>> My most painful thorn are     caller allowable, trusted library,....
>
> I do not understand what you mean by "caller allowable trusted libraries". ???

Those are two "new" (introduced year ago) security manifest attributes. Itw is still not honoring 
them http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/security/manifest.html

Entry-Point Attribute on the way, rest done,  but those two... Still no op.

>
>>>>> Or rather specify semantics for an online-denied element. But this is has to
>>>>> be defined by the
>>>>> specification, not the implementation. Otherwise we could just start assigning
>>>>> our arbitrary
>>>>> semantics to every arbitrary aspect of the specification. This would certainly
>>>>> be neither wise nor
>>>>> helpful to anybody in particular.


Thanx for feedback!

  J.