CMS cycles triggered by Perm almost being full

[Srinivas Ramakrishna]

Kirk,

Did you confirm that this isn't just a case of back to back CMS collections
(hence the periodicity?)
because of the old gen being "too full" ? Recall that the expansion of the
old gen is not well coordinated
with the initiating occupancy, so we may be in a regime where we get back
to back collections
because of exceeding the initiating occupancy, but the heap isn't full
enough to need to grow per
the MinHeapFreeRatio figure.

If perm gen collection is disabled, perhaps we stay at this high occupancy.
However, when you do an
explicit full gc that collects the perm gen, it also causes some old gen
objects that had been kept alive from
now dead but previously "zombie" perm gen references to be collected, and
the occupancy of the old gen
drops down.

If that were so, of course you would have seen the change (drop) in the
occupancy of the old generation (with the
change in occupancy of the perm gen being just a red herring).

-- ramki



On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Srinivas Ramakrishna <ysr1729 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Thomas, my recollection is from a while back and I haven't looked at the
> code recently, but
> CMS does increase perm size as the heap fills up. However, as you may be
> implying, the heap size increase is not tied to the CMS perm trigger
> setting.
> Thus, it's possible that the occupancy of the perm gen is such that it
> exceeds
> the perm trigger ratio, but is not sufficiently large that the perm gen
> will be increased
> in size.
>
> As to Kirk's original question, well, it seems strange that the Perm
> trigger ratio is being used
> as a CMS trigger when CMS class unloading is disabled. I thought that the
> CMS initiating
> trigger was tied to the occupancy of the perm only when class unloading
> was enabled,
> and was otherwise only affected by the occupancy of the old generation.
> You can enable
> a flag that makes CMS more talkative about why it's starting a CMS
> collection and that
> might provide a clue. Perhaps there's a bug in the trigger.
>
> -- ramki
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Thomas Viessmann <
> thomas.viessmann at oracle.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi Kirk,
>>
>> Disclaimer: I'm in support and all I can share is my experience:
>>
>> You always need a full GC if heap resizing is needed.
>> CMS  AFAIHS cannot initiate an increase of perm.
>> Sooner or later it will bail out.
>> I always start with the heap sizing first. Making sure that
>> all areas have sufficient capacity and a fixed size in order
>> to avoid constant CMS runs or even bail outs.
>>
>> Thanks and Regards
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> On 10/02/13 04:38, Kirk Pepperdine wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've just witnessed in 1.7.0_17-b02 (Solaris AMD) CMS cycles being initiated every 7.390 seconds. The system is idle and there are no foreground (ParNew) collections running. Perm occupancy is quite close to it's configured size so it's quite likely that the cause of the CMS cycle is this. However, Class unloading is not enabled and thus the CMS cycle doesn't "fix" the trigger by cleaning out perm or being able to enlarge it (configured size < max size) and there isn't any pressure for a Full collection (CMF??). Triggering a collection (System.gc()) of course "fixes" the problem (facilitates a perm space expansion).
>>
>> Ok, so there are work arounds for this but it really confused the person who contacted me with the problem and he's no slouch when it comes to GC. I've advised him to turn on perm space sweeping with class unloading. That said, it seems that CMS should know that it's not going to be able to fix the problem that triggered to to run and it should degrade into a CMF, reason perm space needs resizing. My questions are, have I missed something? Should this be filed as a bug? Or, is this as intended?
>>
>> On a side note I found the 7.390 second period to be an interesting distraction.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kirk
>>
>>
>> --
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