From iris.clark at oracle.com Wed Oct 9 16:24:26 2019 From: iris.clark at oracle.com (Iris Clark) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 09:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EG Meeting Minutes: Mon 7 Oct 2019 Message-ID: <671465ed-20c7-4785-a8f1-83a97e6d73d4@default> Hi. I've attached minutes for our meeting 7 Oct. Please provide updates to this thread as necessary. Thanks, Iris -------------- next part -------------- Java SE 14 (JSR 389) Expert Group minutes: 2019/10/07 Attendees: Brian Goetz (Oracle), Tim Ellison (IBM), Iris Clark (Oracle, minutes) The intent of these minutes is to capture the conversational flow of the discussion and to record any decisions and follow-up items. Agenda ------ - Oracle CodeOne 2019 - Meeting frequency Oracle CodeOne 2019 ------------------- The meeting began with Tim and Brian making a few observations about the recent [Oracle CodeOne][codeone19] conference in September. Tim noted that there appeared to be less emphasis on Java. He thought that Java should be more visible, similar to the conferences of past years. Brian said that the shift in the release cadence (releases every 6 months) has been good for product delivery; however, it was not great for conferences as frequent releases meant that there were minimal opportunities for major announcements. [codeone19]: https://www.oracle.com/code-one/ Meeting frequency ----------------- Brian wondered whether things were proceeding smoothly enough to move all discussions to the mailing list. He categorized all of the agenda items from past meetings as follows. Meetings always contained brief status for the in-progress JSRs. Earlier meetings contained a number of discussions explaining existing policies and processes (e.g. EG dashboards for JEPs and CSRs, preview features, incubator modules, build artifacts, and bundle organization). There was also some discussion about new features and policies. Finally, there were also reviews of upcoming events such as JVMLS and OCW. Given the current availability and quality of information, Tim agreed that regular quarterly meetings were not necessary. He suggested scheduling ad hoc meetings for high-bandwidth topics as needed. Brian requested recommendations for the contents of status updates. Tim said that he was happy with the current information, particularly the [JEP14] and [CSR14] dashboards. His main concerns were around being able to develop an independent implementation which meant his focus was on the quality of the specification and licensing. >From his point of view, people had learned to navigate the various information channels to collect the necessary information. Brian reminded Tim of a discussion around preview features. In early drafts of [JSR 388][jsr388], this specification referenced documentation outside of the JSR. After discussion in the EG and consultation with the Specification authors, JSR 388 was modified to include the specification directly (see [Annex 3][jsr388a3]). Tim noted that while the discussion did occur in an EG meeting, the topic was not provoked by the meeting and could have been handled via e-mail. In closing, Tim mentioned that he had observed an increase in adoption of Jave SE 11 over the past 3-6 months. Brian reported that he'd seen a similar trend. Speculation was that a critical number of libraries and frameworks had transitioned to the later release and application writers were discovering this and discovering that the port was both beneficial and tractable. [JEP]: https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=18512 [CSR]: https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=18511 [jsr388]: https://cr.openjdk.java.net/~iris/se/13/spec/fr/java-se-13-fr-spec/java-se-13-spec.html [jsr388a3]: https://cr.openjdk.java.net/~iris/se/13/spec/fr/java-se-13-fr-spec/java-se-13-annex-3.html From brian.goetz at oracle.com Wed Oct 9 16:43:39 2019 From: brian.goetz at oracle.com (Brian Goetz) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 12:43:39 -0400 Subject: EG Meeting Minutes: Mon 7 Oct 2019 In-Reply-To: <671465ed-20c7-4785-a8f1-83a97e6d73d4@default> References: <671465ed-20c7-4785-a8f1-83a97e6d73d4@default> Message-ID: <0a8904d1-4e52-54c7-8fff-ffcc35ca7216@oracle.com> Thanks Iris. The main point of discussion, as the minutes show, is whether we've reached the point where the standing video calls are superfluous.? When we got started on the transition to the more rapid release cadence, I thought they were useful, and identified a number of issues that subsequently got ironed out.? But, I think we're in good shape now, and maybe can move primary discussion to the mailing list, and call meetings as needed? On 10/9/2019 12:24 PM, Iris Clark wrote: > Hi. > > I've attached minutes for our meeting 7 Oct. > > Please provide updates to this thread as necessary. > > Thanks, > Iris From sritter at azul.com Thu Oct 10 11:38:42 2019 From: sritter at azul.com (Simon Ritter) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 12:38:42 +0100 Subject: EG Meeting Minutes: Mon 7 Oct 2019 In-Reply-To: <0a8904d1-4e52-54c7-8fff-ffcc35ca7216@oracle.com> References: <671465ed-20c7-4785-a8f1-83a97e6d73d4@default> <0a8904d1-4e52-54c7-8fff-ffcc35ca7216@oracle.com> Message-ID: <9c8e6c92-107b-9b11-4f97-d91c81977ba1@azul.com> I fully support this idea.? Having calls as, and when, required makes more sense than regualrly scheduled ones. Regards, Simon. On 09/10/2019 17:43, Brian Goetz wrote: > Thanks Iris. > > The main point of discussion, as the minutes show, is whether we've > reached the point where the standing video calls are superfluous.? > When we got started on the transition to the more rapid release > cadence, I thought they were useful, and identified a number of issues > that subsequently got ironed out.? But, I think we're in good shape > now, and maybe can move primary discussion to the mailing list, and > call meetings as needed? > > > > On 10/9/2019 12:24 PM, Iris Clark wrote: >> Hi. >> >> I've attached minutes for our meeting 7 Oct. >> >> Please provide updates to this thread as necessary. >> >> Thanks, >> Iris