Feature complete?

[Alan Bateman]

On 04/12/2015 13:50, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote:
> :
>
> Emphasis mine: "only"?
>
> "Just add some command line switches" is not exactly a nice solution. From
> personal experience, the vast majority of java users do not know how to add
> configure command line switches to the various compile and build VMs being
> started by their build tools of choice, for example. Also, not something
> Alan mentioned here: Adding the command line switches is currently the
> _ONLY_ solution, so tools that are aware of the issue can't even fix it,
> other than by mangling modules (bad idea, I think we all agree on that I
> assume), or advising the userbase not to actually USE any of the modularity
> features and, preferably, to avoid switching to JDK9 altogether.
The context for this discussion, as least my understanding, is that we 
were talking existing code where you are trying to run it in the same 
way as you did in JDK 8. If that code is using JDK-internal APIs then 
the command-line option is the only workaround proposed to keep that 
code working.

I agree that setting the command-line is a challenge in many 
environments, esp. when it is buried in XML files or scripts. You may be 
right that it is beyond some developers too.  We've tried to make error 
and exceptions as clear as possible so that it's not too difficult to 
figure out what is going on.

>
> Emphasis mine: "starting out"?
>
> This gets back to an earlier issue I raised on this mailing list: Okay,
> starting out this isn't an issue, but by having no way to opt out of
> export-based access control, it's a bit like switching from driving on the
> left side of the road to the right: Unless the entire greater java
> community switches in the same instant, we're all going to have a bad time.
The current design and prototype provides support for migration to 
modules without waiting for the rest of the world to migrate. We're 
going to need more experience, help, feedback to make sure that this is 
useful.

The main challenge is of course is the tension between frameworks and 
strong encapsulation. Existing frameworks don't know about modules and 
so it will be important for willing maintainers of at least some 
important frameworks to work with us to get to the right solution. Maybe 
then we can start switching to the other side of the road, a gradual 
migrating, starting with the big trucks :-)

-Alan