JShell & Newbies

[Anna Evans]

Hi Robert,

That's incredibly useful, thank you! I'll have a play with those settings...

(I can see why established users would find it overly verbose, but to
learners it's such a major element to grasp that I think having that
reinforcement is incredibly important, so it's great to know it can be an
option.)

Already I can say it's a wonderful teaching tool – so much better for total
beginners than even the friendliest IDE could ever be!

I'm starting with the absolute basics and working up from there, so shall
let you know any additional feedback that arises.

Kind regards
Anna





>
> +Anna
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Robert Field <robert.field at oracle.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 09/21/16 23:07, Ben Evans wrote:
> >>
> >> Some feedback from my wife, who's currently writing some introductory
> >> material for absolute beginners in Java (& programming as a whole) -
> >> she uses jshell as the very first thing that learners meet and had
> >> this to say:
> >
> >
> > Excellent!  Yes, please, Anna & Ben.
> >
> > When we launched the JShell project we identified three main audiences:
> >
> > (1) People learning Java (including learning to program for the first
> time
> > using Java)
> >
> > (2) Learning a new API or language feature
> >
> > (3) Prototyping
> >
> > And it appears this is also significant:
> >
> > (4) Testing
> >
> > While we have had some feedback from educators, I think other uses have
> held
> > heavier sway.
> >
> > I'm particularly interested in making it work well for raw beginners.
> >
> >>> >I really liked in earlier versions where it returned a type as well
> as a
> >>> > result - helps learners get to grips with java as typed language.
> >>> >(Also makes it easier for kids who are used to calculators to
> understand
> >>> > why 4/3 returns 1, not 1.333334!)
> >
> >
> > The feedback I got was that users of other REPLs would "laugh at JShell"
> if
> > it stayed as verbose as it was.
> >
> > So, we tried to hit a middle ground of being expressive but concise.
> >
> > The good news is (to do that) we made the jshell tool extremely
> > configurable.
> >
> > First level of configuration is that you can set the feedback mode.
> Either
> > with a command:
> >
> >     /set feedback verbose
> >
> > or with a command-line switch:
> >
> >     jshell -v
> >
> > The "verbose" predefined mode will show the type.
> >
> > (you can also go the other direction: concise or silent)
> >
> > The second level of configuration is what enables the first.  You can, at
> > fine detail, configure what feedback you get.  See the /set commands:
> /help
> > /set, /help /set mode, /help /set format, , /help /set feedback
> >
> > Weird place to find it (until you think about it), but you can see the
> > configuration that creates the default modes here:
> >
> > langtools/src/jdk.jshell/share/classes/jdk/internal/jshell/tool/resources
> --
> > startup.feedback = ...
> >
> >> If the usage of jshell for beginners is a big aim of the project
> >> (something like Swift Playgrounds), Anna & I would be happy to help
> >> review features & provide more feedback with that audience in mind.
> >
> >
> > Absolutely!!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
> >
>
>


-- 
Anna Evans
e: anna at curvedspaces.co.uk
m: +44 (0) 7872 006 297