<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Is it the case that the information content of a carrier made by c=ExtentLocal.where(k,v) is just exactly<br>the pair k,v?</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Yes</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">I suppose a carrier made by c.where(k2,v2) contains exactly k,v,k2,v2.</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Semantically yes, but implementation wise, it contains exactly <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">c,k2,v2</code>, it works as a linked-list of <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">(ExtentLocal<T>, T)</code> pairs</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">(But if k==k2 then the information content is just k2,v2.)</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">No, <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">c.where(k, v2)</code> will contain <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">c,k,v2</code> and <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">c</code> will still contain <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">k,v</code>.</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">I can store a Carrier in a global variable, even pass it to five other threads, and have each of them call c.run(…) with completely independent sets of bindings, except for the k,v,k2,v2 mandated by the carrier’s information content.</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Correct</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">IIRC</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">You are remembering correctly, there is a method to search for a value in a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code>, <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier#get(ExtentLocal<T> key)</code>, but you cannot iterate over ExtentLocal that are bound to that Carrier.</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">although maybe usecases will eventually call […]</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">I am interested to know what use cases may arise, I can’t imagine exposing the keys of a carrier to be good. A <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> is basically an <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">ExtentLocal<T> to T</code> map. If <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">x</code> is a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> there is no way to verify a connection between the current extent and <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">x</code>, so the only thing I can think of is to check if some <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">ExtentLocal<T> LOCAL</code> is already bound in <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">x</code> before calling to <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">run/call</code>, but <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier#get(ExtentLocal<T>)</code> already solves this problem.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Also, in general, exposing the key set of a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> may be a source for security problems. By exposing the keys you are allowing anyone with access to the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> the ability to view and override all of the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">ExtentLocal<T></code>s that are referenced in that <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code>, including private ones.</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">larger binding-map API sneaks through</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Well… It is not part of the API, but using reflection it is possible to get a hold on the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code> object, as well as the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot.prev</code> and <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier.prev</code> fields, which allow you to find all of the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">ExtentLocal</code>s that exist in the current extent.</p><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left:4px solid rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none"><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">A very different design</p></blockquote><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Remember you need to support situations like:</p><pre style="font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;font-size:1em;line-height:1.2em;margin-top:1.2em;margin-bottom:1.2em"><code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;white-space:pre-wrap;overflow:auto;border-radius:3px;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0.5em;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:rgb(248,248,248);display:block">ExtentLocal.where(k, v)
                   .run(() -> {
                       ExtentLocal.where(k2, v2).run(...);
                   });
</code></pre><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">So either you are keeping the full extent in the carrier, or make it mutable and leave the rest as it is now.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Internally, using a static parameter <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">JavaLangAccess JLA</code>, the full extent current is saved, and the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> is a class that helps you store stuff in the extent (the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> saves the key-value pairs, and when you call the method <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">run/call</code> it adds it to the current extent), so the first option will needlessly touch internal components (or copy an internal logic to the high level part of the feature), and making stuff mutable is always a place for disasters.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">To explain a bit on this, apart from <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code>, there exists a (protected) class called <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code>, a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code> is basically a linked list of <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code>s.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">Using this <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">JLA</code> you can access the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code> of the current extent.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">When using <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">run/call</code>, the carrier (<code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">bindings</code>) (1) gets the current extent (<code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">prev</code>), (2) creates a new <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code>(<code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">b</code>) whose value is <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">bindings</code> and tail be <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">prev</code> and (3) sets the current extent to <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">b</code>.</p><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em">When calling <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">LocalExtent#get(key)</code>, (1) <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">LocalExtent</code> get the current extent, (2) run on each <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code>, (3) in each <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Snapshot</code> it run over every <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">Carrier</code> and search for <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">key</code></p><div title="MDH:Jmd0O8KgCgo8c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7Ij5JcyBpdCB0aGUg
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ZGl2Pg==" style="height:0px;width:0px;max-height:0px;max-width:0px;overflow:hidden;font-size:0em;padding:0px;margin:0px"></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 10:22 PM John Rose <<a href="mailto:john.r.rose@oracle.com">john.r.rose@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>


<div><div style="font-family:sans-serif"><div style="white-space:normal">
<p dir="auto">I’m very glad to see this moving towards completion.<br>
Better threads richly deserve better thread locals!</p>
<p dir="auto">I’d like to check my understanding of the intermediate<br>
type <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">Carrier</code>.  Is it the case that the information content<br>
of a carrier made by <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c=ExtentLocal.where(k,v)</code> is just exactly<br>
the pair <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">k,v</code>?  And then, after that, I suppose a carrier made<br>
by <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c.where(k2,v2)</code> contains exactly <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">k,v,k2,v2</code>.  (But if<br>
<code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">k==k2</code> then the information content is just <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">k2,v2</code>.)</p>
<p dir="auto">And if that is true, then I can store a <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">Carrier</code> in a global<br>
variable, even pass it to five other threads, and have each<br>
of them call <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c.run(…)</code> with completely independent sets of<br>
bindings, except for the <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">k,v,k2,v2</code> mandated by the carrier’s<br>
information content.</p>
<p dir="auto">What I’m trying to exclude here is that a <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">Carrier</code> somehow<br>
threads in the ambient binding map for the current extent,<br>
as non-locally defined by all of the caller frames, plus<br>
whatever bindings might have been provided when the current<br>
thread was launched.</p>
<p dir="auto">IIRC you have chosen not to provide general methods for working<br>
with binding maps.  (There is no key/value iterator on <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">Carrier</code>.)<br>
And then reifying the very special binding map in the current<br>
extent is right out.  I think this is fine, although maybe use<br>
cases will eventually call for map-like views on both local<br>
carrier multi-tuples and grand non-local binding maps.  Those<br>
can be added later if needed.</p>
<p dir="auto">So, my asking to confirm the very finite and local information<br>
content of the type <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">Carrier</code> is really me double-checking<br>
that no larger binding-map API sneaks through the current JEP<br>
API.</p>
<p dir="auto">A very different design would sneak in an reified map pointer<br>
into every result of <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c=ExtentLocal.where(k,v)</code> such that<br>
bindings available in <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c.run(…)</code> would come only from c<br>
and its uplevel pointer, completely blocking any bindings<br>
present at the call to <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c.run</code>.  I guess such bindings would<br>
no longer be properly called “extent-local”; only the binding<br>
map root would be extent local but it would be subject to<br>
radical editing on each call to <code style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0.4em;border-radius:3px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">c.run(…)</code>.</p>
<p dir="auto">Make sense?</p>

</div></div></div>


</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Holo The Wise Wolf Of Yoitsu</div></div>