macosx-port-dev Digest, Vol 26, Issue 19

[Mike Swingler]

On Feb 22, 2013, at 3:19 AM, Robert Krüger <krueger at lesspain.de> wrote:

> Hello Mike,
> 
>> This is correct. Apple is continuing to push developers to embed Java 7 and end users who need command-line tools to install an Oracle JDK.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, for backwards compatibility, we will still have to offer Java SE 6 for applications which link against the JavaVM.framework and do not provide their own Java 7. We are planning to make Java SE 6 a manual download only, and completely remove the install-on-demand experience, even for legacy apps.
> 
> is there any chance that you inform developers about when this move is
> going to happen?

I don't have any specific time frame that I can share, but you should expect the auto-download behavior to completely disappear before the end of this year.

What is changing in in the near term is a policy shift for command-line tool invocations. We will soon present a dialog suggesting that the user install Oracle's JDK if there is no command-line Java available, instead of offering to auto-download Apple's Java SE 6. Anyone who has a Java SE 6 or Java 7 installed will continue to use the highest version installed by default.

> because it will be quite a big thing for people like
> Kustaa and ourselves as we are basically in the same position he
> described (Oracle knows about issues but they are not fixed and if
> JDK6 becomes a manual download before Oracle gets these things fixed
> our product will suffer a serious competitive disadvantage as having
> to put instructions with required downloads into a product is really,
> really unusual for out target group.

Right now your product goes through a non-optimal workflow, by asking end users to install Java SE 6, which has been EOL'd by Oracle and deprecated by Apple. The only difference will be the "auto" installation workflow will turn into a dialog which punts users to a web page (which should clearly explain that the thing they are installing is deprecated, but the only choice for these older applications).

> We so much _want_ to switch to Oracle's JRE as soon as we can and that
> totally depends on known issues to be fixed by Oracle and the only
> thing we can do is wait and while I find it totally legitimate of
> Apple to push people to using Oracle's JRE, the time seems too early
> to leave us without options (other than either having a bad
> installation experience or a bad product when it runs). This may
> change soon but as of today that is what I see would happen if you
> took away the install-on-demand behaviour of JDK6 tomorrow.

We do understand that the time is not right now, but this is your heads-up that it is coming. We will not be making this change for bundled apps tomorrow. :-)

I would also suggest trying to embed OpenJDK 8 in your app - that's where all the latest and greatest fixes are going after all. If, in your testing, it provides a superior experience, and the license is compatible with your product - it may be the best option for you in the immediate term, and it opens up distribution options for you. And best of all, no confusing additional downloads for your users.

Even if there are still problems in OpenJDK 8, the turn around time for fixes will be a lot shorter than waiting for the next feature release cut of Java 7 from Oracle. Even better, if you come up with fixes issues you find in OpenJDK 8, you will be benefitting the entire Java ecosystem by contributing them.

> Honestly, thanks for listening and your work to help us in this
> situation because you do a lot on this list in that regard and
> probably even more behind the scenes and we appreciate that, bigtime,
> 
> Robert
> 
> P.S.: I resent it to the list because the original reply accidentally
> only went to Mike.

Always happy to help,
Mike Swingler
Apple Inc.