Truffle and mlvm

[Thomas Wuerthinger]

Mark,

It is possible to use Truffle for parts of the functionality of your language while the language itself is implemented with a bytecode generation approach (e.g., native extensions or regular expressions). Overall, I still believe that sometimes a larger step is needed when current techniques start to reach local maxima. 

Regards, thomas

On 29 Aug 2014, at 22:59, Mark Roos <mroos at roos.com> wrote:

> Moving from the startup thread. 
> 
> Thomas has been wondering why using Truffle as a solution is not getting immediate 
> traction.  I was initially, and continue to be, quite interested in Truffle.  So how could 
> Truffle help out us non Java on the JVM developers to the point where we could be a 
> driving force behind it.  First note that myself and I would guess all language implementers 
> ( as compared to researchers ) are like Marcus, very pragmatic.  Small changes are welcome 
> but wholesale ones are seen as a barrier.  So to use Truffle I would want to see it as an 
> addition to the jvm which addresses one of my specific issues. 
> 
> The issue that I have where the solution is not evident is in the creation of primitive 
> methods.  A primitive method in Smalltalk takes the arguments and some constants 
> and executes object code to deliver the result.  Traditionally written C or assembler 
> I now use Java and JNI.  Since we have the equivalent to value types (wrapped byte[]) 
> primitives can be quite important for our vector math ops performance. 
> 
> What would be very nice would be to attach a truffle.jar, pass it some data structure 
> which defines a primitive and get back a method handle wrapping some optimized object code. 
> Given that this MH comes from a known source perhaps the jni like overhead could 
> be much reduced similar to an intrinsic. 
> 
> This would be much simpler, I would guess, then the Panama effort to wrap arbitrary code. 
> Plus I would not have to have a pre made object file per external environment. 
> 
> regards 
> mark_______________________________________________
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