JavaFX for the Enterprise - Working Group

[Richard Bair]

From talking with the NB team, one feature they really need is to be able to embed Swing within JavaFX. Hopefully we can deliver on that for 8.

On Oct 17, 2012, at 7:40 AM, Mark Claassen wrote:

> I joined this list a few days ago because I wanted to start contributing
> So far, I am not sure it is quite where I should be.  I would like to
> discuss more about the components (table, list boxes, ...).  I am not
> exactly sure where to do that.
> 
> However, I will add here that I started (a very short-lived) thread on the
> netbeans user list along these lines.  Basically what I was saying was that
> Netbeans is a wonderful UI built on Swing.  Could this same project be done
> in JavaFX?  Maybe not yet, but could it be in the future?  It seems like
> the JavaFX team could get a lot of advice and requirements from the
> netbeans team.
> 
> http://forums.netbeans.org/topic51717.html
> 
> Some of the main data structures, like the ObservableList, make me cringe.
> I created a similar structure 10 years ago and have since learned the error
> of my ways.  Granted, the JavaFX team has a lot more resources and
> experience than I did all those years ago, but from my point of view, there
> are dangerous waters ahead.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Richard Bair <richard.bair at oracle.com>wrote:
> 
>> We are already doing everything on your list (which was pretty void of
>> specifics). Please list specific work projects, linked to specific JIRA
>> issues, and vote for them and for goodness sake contribute!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 12:49 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zonski at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> So Oracle as an organization doesn't think JavaFX can be a player in the
>>> web/enterprise space and is backing HTML5. I don't agree, JavaFX has the
>> *
>>> potential* to be better. But it's a long way behind and gotten off to a
>>> rocky start; there's a hell of a lot of work to be done and the current
>>> rate, strategy and direction are not going to be nearly enough.
>>> 
>>> Oracle is a big corporation with many different divisions. The left arm
>>> doesn't know what the right is doing. So let's put aside 'oracle' for a
>>> moment. I want to know: what does the JavaFX team think? Do you want to
>> go
>>> up against HTML5 for the client space, or just settle for a spot on the
>>> fringe?
>>> 
>>> Below is what I propose.
>>> 
>>> This proposal needs the full backing of the JavaFX team and management.
>>> Specifically it needs:
>>> 
>>>  1. Belief that JavaFX can and should be the *number one* client
>>>  development platform for enterprise.
>>>  2. Recognition that the current strategy will not make that happen.
>>>  3. Resources (aka people) allocated to the working group outlined
>> below.
>>>  These people must have enough influence in the JFX platform to
>> legitimately
>>>  be able to influence the direction as needed.
>>>  4. Commitment to supporting this working group fully and implementing
>>>  the strategies and recommendations that come out of it as a high
>> priority
>>>  5. A sense of urgency, and a proactive pursuit of achieving these goals
>>>  with a well defined timeline (i.e. "resources will be allocated by
>> November
>>>  2012" not "we're working on it").
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, all of these must be met 100%. Otherwise there is no point
>>> starting at all and better to let it go and leave the enterprise space to
>>> other players like HTML5 as 'Oracle' is suggesting. This is your call.
>>> 
>>> I believe JavaFX can be the best platform for client-side enterprise
>>> application development, capitalising-on, and adding-to Java's dominance
>> in
>>> server side enterprise development.
>>> 
>>> Do you?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Proposal to form a working group for JavaFX in the enterprise*
>>> 
>>> Mission:
>>> 
>>>  - to position JavaFX as *the* dominant client-side development platform
>>>  for enterprise/business applications
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Members:
>>> 
>>>  - a combination of paid Oracle JavaFX team members, and community
>>>  participants. The Oracle members must have the ability to access senior
>>>  JavaFX management and technical decision makers, and as such influence
>> the
>>>  road map and direction of the JavaFX platform. Community members will
>> be
>>>  those with a background and experience in the enterprise space and who
>> are
>>>  committed to making JavaFX the platform of choice in this space.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Responsibilities:
>>> 
>>>  - Continuously identify improvements to the JavaFX platform that are
>>>  needed to ensure adoption by enterprise; drive the inclusion of these
>> into
>>>  the JavaFX platform.
>>> 
>>>  - Continuously identify and monitor trends and developments within the
>>>  enterprise space and competitor platforms (e.g. HTML5, .NET, etc) and
>>>  ensure the JavaFX roadmap provides confidence to enterprise of JavaFX's
>>>  long term viability for their needs.
>>> 
>>>  - Provide best practices, community/forum support, documentation,
>>>  examples, tool add-ons, frameworks and other aids for integrating
>> JavaFX
>>>  into popular enterprise technology stacks
>>> 
>>>  - Provide advocacy, publicity and drive general engagement and outreach
>>>  programs for the adoption of JavaFX in the enterprise.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Objectives:
>>> 
>>> Objectives will be determined by the working group once formed, however
>>> initial objectives will likely include the following:
>>> 
>>>  - Review the current deployment/distribution options for JavaFX and
>>>  determine ways to improve this to make it competitive with other
>> popular
>>>  enterprise client platforms (e.g. HTML+JavaScript) for primary
>> enterprise
>>>  OS' and platforms
>>> 
>>>  - Identify the most popular enterprise build and development tools and
>>>  determine a strategy for making JavaFX integrate into these
>>> 
>>>  - Review popular trends and toolkits within competitive platforms and
>>>  define the ideal frameworks and add-on tools needed by an enterprise
>> client
>>>  (e.g. form validation). Use this list of high-level requirements to
>>>  determine the low-level JavaFX enhancements needed (e.g. allow field
>>>  markers so that a 3rd party validation framework could leverage these).
>>> 
>>>  - Create a demonstration enterprise application (along the lines of
>>>  PetClinic) demonstrating best practice for integrating JavaFX in a
>> full,
>>>  end-to-end JEE stack.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Longer term objectives may include:
>>> 
>>>  - Develop (or foster community development of) the high-level
>> frameworks
>>>  that have been identified as necessary for JavaFX in the enterprise.
>> These
>>>  will likely be developed as third-party modules external to the JavaFX
>> core
>>>  framework (i.e. built on top of the features provided by the core
>> JavaFX
>>>  team).
>>> 
>>>  - Provide integration with existing or new Rapid Application
>> Development
>>>  (RAD) tools popular within the enterprise Java space (e.g. ROO, etc).
>>