JavaFX for the Enterprise - Working Group

Thu Oct 18 11:20:08 PDT 2012

http://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-12100

It even references Mario & Roman's work ;-)

On Oct 18, 2012, at 11:06 AM, Mark Fortner wrote:

> Richard,
> This is pretty critical in order to get Swing applications ported over to
> JavaFX.  There are a lot of libraries out there that probably will never be
> ported to JavaFX, and for which there are no JavaFX equivalents. This kind
> of embedding makes is possible for people to at least entertain the idea of
> transitioning to JavaFX.
> 
> Is there a JIRA issue for this?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Richard Bair <richard.bair at oracle.com>wrote:
> 
>> The AWT / Glass guys actually have a prototype of all of SwingSet running
>> in JavaFX. I think most of the technical hurdles have been resolved (?
>> Artem would know better), but it is just a matter of resourcing (there were
>> some changes in AWT to get the best performance / integration).
>> 
>> Richard
>> 
>> On Oct 18, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Mario Torre wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Richard,
>>> 
>>> You should probably look at this old mail, since this may be what you
>> need.
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/openjfx-dev/2011-December/000021.html
>>> 
>>> We need to port this code to 2.2, I'll try to give it some love this
>>> week, it should give us also some good performances.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mario
>>> 
>>> 2012/10/18 Richard Bair <richard.bair at oracle.com>:
>>>> From talking with the NB team, one feature they really need is to be
>> able to embed Swing within JavaFX. Hopefully we can deliver on that for 8.
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 7:40 AM, Mark Claassen wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I joined this list a few days ago because I wanted to start
>> contributing
>>>>> So far, I am not sure it is quite where I should be.  I would like to
>>>>> discuss more about the components (table, list boxes, ...).  I am not
>>>>> exactly sure where to do that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> However, I will add here that I started (a very short-lived) thread on
>> the
>>>>> netbeans user list along these lines.  Basically what I was saying was
>> that
>>>>> Netbeans is a wonderful UI built on Swing.  Could this same project be
>> done
>>>>> in JavaFX?  Maybe not yet, but could it be in the future?  It seems
>> like
>>>>> the JavaFX team could get a lot of advice and requirements from the
>>>>> netbeans team.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://forums.netbeans.org/topic51717.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some of the main data structures, like the ObservableList, make me
>> cringe.
>>>>> I created a similar structure 10 years ago and have since learned the
>> error
>>>>> of my ways.  Granted, the JavaFX team has a lot more resources and
>>>>> experience than I did all those years ago, but from my point of view,
>> there
>>>>> are dangerous waters ahead.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Richard Bair <
>> richard.bair at oracle.com>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We are already doing everything on your list (which was pretty void of
>>>>>> specifics). Please list specific work projects, linked to specific
>> JIRA
>>>>>> issues, and vote for them and for goodness sake contribute!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 12:49 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zonski at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So Oracle as an organization doesn't think JavaFX can be a player in
>> the
>>>>>>> web/enterprise space and is backing HTML5. I don't agree, JavaFX has
>> the
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> potential* to be better. But it's a long way behind and gotten off
>> to a
>>>>>>> rocky start; there's a hell of a lot of work to be done and the
>> current
>>>>>>> rate, strategy and direction are not going to be nearly enough.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Oracle is a big corporation with many different divisions. The left
>> arm
>>>>>>> doesn't know what the right is doing. So let's put aside 'oracle'
>> for a
>>>>>>> moment. I want to know: what does the JavaFX team think? Do you want
>> to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> up against HTML5 for the client space, or just settle for a spot on
>> the
>>>>>>> fringe?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Below is what I propose.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This proposal needs the full backing of the JavaFX team and
>> management.
>>>>>>> Specifically it needs:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1. Belief that JavaFX can and should be the *number one* client
>>>>>>> development platform for enterprise.
>>>>>>> 2. Recognition that the current strategy will not make that happen.
>>>>>>> 3. Resources (aka people) allocated to the working group outlined
>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>> These people must have enough influence in the JFX platform to
>>>>>> legitimately
>>>>>>> be able to influence the direction as needed.
>>>>>>> 4. Commitment to supporting this working group fully and implementing
>>>>>>> the strategies and recommendations that come out of it as a high
>>>>>> priority
>>>>>>> 5. A sense of urgency, and a proactive pursuit of achieving these
>> goals
>>>>>>> with a well defined timeline (i.e. "resources will be allocated by
>>>>>> November
>>>>>>> 2012" not "we're working on it").
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In my opinion, all of these must be met 100%. Otherwise there is no
>> point
>>>>>>> starting at all and better to let it go and leave the enterprise
>> space to
>>>>>>> other players like HTML5 as 'Oracle' is suggesting. This is your
>> call.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe JavaFX can be the best platform for client-side enterprise
>>>>>>> application development, capitalising-on, and adding-to Java's
>> dominance
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> server side enterprise development.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do you?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *Proposal to form a working group for JavaFX in the enterprise*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mission:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - to position JavaFX as *the* dominant client-side development
>> platform
>>>>>>> for enterprise/business applications
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Members:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - a combination of paid Oracle JavaFX team members, and community
>>>>>>> participants. The Oracle members must have the ability to access
>> senior
>>>>>>> JavaFX management and technical decision makers, and as such
>> influence
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> road map and direction of the JavaFX platform. Community members will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> those with a background and experience in the enterprise space and
>> who
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> committed to making JavaFX the platform of choice in this space.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Responsibilities:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Continuously identify improvements to the JavaFX platform that are
>>>>>>> needed to ensure adoption by enterprise; drive the inclusion of these
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the JavaFX platform.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Continuously identify and monitor trends and developments within
>> the
>>>>>>> enterprise space and competitor platforms (e.g. HTML5, .NET, etc) and
>>>>>>> ensure the JavaFX roadmap provides confidence to enterprise of
>> JavaFX's
>>>>>>> long term viability for their needs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Provide best practices, community/forum support, documentation,
>>>>>>> examples, tool add-ons, frameworks and other aids for integrating
>>>>>> JavaFX
>>>>>>> into popular enterprise technology stacks
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Provide advocacy, publicity and drive general engagement and
>> outreach
>>>>>>> programs for the adoption of JavaFX in the enterprise.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Objectives:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Objectives will be determined by the working group once formed,
>> however
>>>>>>> initial objectives will likely include the following:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Review the current deployment/distribution options for JavaFX and
>>>>>>> determine ways to improve this to make it competitive with other
>>>>>> popular
>>>>>>> enterprise client platforms (e.g. HTML+JavaScript) for primary
>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>> OS' and platforms
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Identify the most popular enterprise build and development tools
>> and
>>>>>>> determine a strategy for making JavaFX integrate into these
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Review popular trends and toolkits within competitive platforms and
>>>>>>> define the ideal frameworks and add-on tools needed by an enterprise
>>>>>> client
>>>>>>> (e.g. form validation). Use this list of high-level requirements to
>>>>>>> determine the low-level JavaFX enhancements needed (e.g. allow field
>>>>>>> markers so that a 3rd party validation framework could leverage
>> these).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Create a demonstration enterprise application (along the lines of
>>>>>>> PetClinic) demonstrating best practice for integrating JavaFX in a
>>>>>> full,
>>>>>>> end-to-end JEE stack.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Longer term objectives may include:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Develop (or foster community development of) the high-level
>>>>>> frameworks
>>>>>>> that have been identified as necessary for JavaFX in the enterprise.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>>> will likely be developed as third-party modules external to the
>> JavaFX
>>>>>> core
>>>>>>> framework (i.e. built on top of the features provided by the core
>>>>>> JavaFX
>>>>>>> team).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Provide integration with existing or new Rapid Application
>>>>>> Development
>>>>>>> (RAD) tools popular within the enterprise Java space (e.g. ROO, etc).
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 