Look and feel mechanism?

[Scott Palmer]

> On Dec 8, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Felix Bembrick <felix.bembrick at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Firstly, it will *never* be possible to completely emulate the native look
> and feel.  

Sure it is. Though it may never be practical, for many of the reasons you have given.

> My reasoning is: why bother?  

Because it matters. As computer literate developers, we often don't realize what trips other people up.  I get so frustrated with apps these days because they have become hard to use simply because the developers tried to define their own look and feel.  For example, Chrome and Firefox... Or Microsoft Office...
Where did the title bar go in chrome? 
Where have all the menus gone in Chrome, Firefox andOffice?  I can find them, but when I have to play tech support over the phone to my parents these changes are massive problems. I ask my dad to move he window by dragging the title bar (please don't ask why he doesn't know to do this himself after decades of computer use) and he says "there is no title bar"... I the remember that yes, chrome did that... They got rid of a standard concept in the OS' windowing system and screed the end users.

These apps became harder to use because of this "innovation" in the UI.

Contrast this with applications on OS X where getting the UI right has always been an important priority for developers.  Because adhering to the system look and feel has always been strongly encouraged the system is much easier to use.

> These days, many apps do not look 100% native and may have their own
> controls or look and feel in general.

Yes, but to what end? They are now more difficult to use.

>  Why not channel all that massive
> effort in constructing an emulated native look and feel into simply making
> JavaFX better overall?

But I agree here.  The general look isn't the main issue.. E.g. little variations in color and minor tweaks to a few pixels here and there don't really matter.  What does matter is when you change the order of buttons, like Okay & Cancel which have standard places that are different between Mac and Windows, or you move the About menu item from the Application menu on an OS X app to the help menu! because that is where you find it on Windows.  Those things matter.


Scott

> 
> Felix
> 
> 
> 
> On 9 December 2013 12:35, Pedro Duque Vieira <pedro.duquevieira at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> @Jasper: Yes, that's very interesting! Forgot that was possible to do in
>> CSS.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Stephen Winnall <steve at winnall.ch> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It may be possible to change the LOOK with CSS, but not the FEEL, which
>> is
>>> where Java apps have traditionally failed big time.
>>> 
>>> Some things that I don’t think can be changed with CSS:
>>> 
>>> 1) texts
>>> 2) order of buttons
>>> 3) escape characters for shortcuts
>>> 4) menus
>>> 5) system-level stuff (double-clicking on files, dropping files on
>>> applications, …)
>>> 6) filesystem conventions
>>> 7) ...
>>> 
>>> I think FXML can fix some of these, but not all. So it seems to me that a
>>> LaF in JFX will consist of at least:
>>> 
>>>        - one or more CSS files
>>>        - one or more FXML files
>>>        - some plumbing at the system level
>>> 
>>> It would be nice to have a set of proper LaFs for each major platform
>> with
>>> an appropriate common API.
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>>> On 9 Dec 2013, at 00:20, Jasper Potts <jasper.potts at oracle.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You can set skin classes from CSS so should be able to do everything
>> you
>>> could with Swing and more. With just a CSS file and skins as and when
>>> needed.
>>>> 
>>>> Jasper
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Jonathan Giles <jonathan.giles at oracle.com
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> At present there are no plans to introduce any further API or
>>>>> functionality in this area, but if there is something you are wanting
>>>>> then you should file feature requests in Jira.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Jonathan
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9/12/2013 11:54 a.m., Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is there any Look and Feel mechanism in place, like the one in Swing?
>>> That
>>>>>> doesn't appear to exist..
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are there any plans to add one? You can only do so much with CSS...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks in advance, best regards,
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Pedro Duque Vieira
>>