Java Deployment (was Re: JavaFX 8 Progress)

Sat Jul 20 10:25:40 PDT 2013

Coincidentally, I was upgrading my ubuntu box recently and noticed that it
installed NetX (an open source JNLP alternative by default).
http://jnlp.sourceforge.net/netx/index.html

I'm not sure what the status is and how this fits into the openjdk vision
of the world.

Cheers,

Mark

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:41 PM, John C. Turnbull
<ozemale at ozemail.com.au>wrote:

> What's the performance like?
>
> What version of Java does it support?
>
> Is it a subset of the JRE or complete?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: openjfx-dev-bounces at openjdk.java.net
> [mailto:openjfx-dev-bounces at openjdk.java.net] On Behalf Of Sven Reimers
> Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 15:01
> To: Daniel Zwolenski
> Cc: openjfx-dev at openjdk.java.net; mike.ehrenberg at barchart.comEhrenberg;
> JeremyJongsma
> Subject: Re: Java Deployment (was Re: JavaFX 8 Progress)
>
> A Java Runtime on top of JavaScript -
> http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Bck2Brwsr
>
> -Sven
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zonski at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes this is another option, basically running it on a server and then
> > rendering on the client. JavaFX could be extended to do this.
> >
> > Another alternative is a 'java runtime' built on top of jscript
> > (similar idea to the runtime being built for mobile, like robovm). In
> > this cases jfx would run 100% in the browser on top of jscript.
> >
> > Another option is a runtime built for the native elements of each
> browser.
> > Eg a runtime running on chrome's native interface, etc.
> >
> > All of the above would require a lot of work before being ready to use
> > and likely would have some tradeoffs in terms of features or
> > performance. The options I listed in the last email are in my opinion
> > more achievable in the short term and generally give decent results.
> >
> > Right now, if you want to deploy jfx my pick suggestion would be
> > completely avoid any of the oracle solutions and just pay the licence
> > fee for install4j. Although I'd not seen jwrapper until just now and
> > it could do with some looking into too.
> >
> > On 19/07/2013, at 8:10 AM, Mario Torre
> > <neugens.limasoftware at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > For Swing you can actually use CacioWeb, works quite well. Zero
> > deployment, no VM needed, no plugin, just an HTML 5 capable browser.
> > >
> > > Doesn't work with JavaFX unfortunately.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Mario
> > >
> > > Il giorno 19/lug/2013 00:03, "Daniel Zwolenski" <zonski at gmail.com>
> > > ha
> > scritto:
> > > >
> > > > There are definitely credible alternatives. The problem is
> > > > currently
> > the alternatives are not implemented well enough so web still ends up
> > a contender just by being the only one able to stand up.
> > > >
> > > > And for the record I build both public facing apps and back-office
> > apps and web deploy does not work well for either. I stopped using jfx
> > because of deployment. I now build only webapps because of deployment.
> > > >
> > > > Credible alternatives:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Native bundlers, but we need:
> > > > - auto updating so people can easily release patch updates
> > > > - smaller co-bundled jre's so that the initial download and
> > > > install is
> > smooth and quick
> > > > - better build tools to make this easier to integrate into a
> > > > standard
> > build process, with some solution for cross-platform build support or
> > to at least minimize the pain
> > > >
> > > > 2. App stores:
> > > > - ready to go right now for Mac but we don't have the tools and I
> > think we need everything fully open sourced for licensing reasons
> > (hard to
> > say)
> > > > - need to either pick one of the unofficial win app stores for
> > pre-win8 support (there's a few), or build our own app store
> > > > - we just need tools for building and deploying to app stores (not
> > that hard) and cut down jre sizes again (app stores are an extension
> > of cobundling approach).
> > > >
> > > > 3. Self-hosted 'app store' for corporate settings. install a
> > > > small,
> > native client on the machine that allows that user to download and
> > install apps from your private server, with auto-updating, etc
> > > > - we need to build one, not that hard, maybe a month or two of
> > > > work to
> > get a first working version out. I would have built one by now but
> > because jfx packaging tools are so bad I've burnt up all my spare time
> > just putting wrappers around these to get the most basic of maven plugins
> to work.
> > > >
> > > > All of the above could have been implemented by now if there was
> > > > just
> > a little bit of love in this area. One resource ticking away would
> > have been enough to get something going. As it stands there has been
> > zero, nada, zip changes into anything other than web/security
> > deployment efforts over the last year. J8 due next year (!) will not
> > include any of the above, or even any simple improvements to
> > deployment approaches other than web, to the best of my knowledge.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 19/07/2013, at 7:30 AM, Mark Fortner <phidias51 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I've heard the "webstart is broke, don't fix it, move on" song
> > before from a number of people.  What I haven't heard is a credible
> > solution to solving the very real problem of keeping an app up-to-date
> > in a corporate setting.  For the most part, I agree that if you're in
> > the business of selling commercial software, selling and distributing
> > through an app store probably makes sense for you. Although I wouldn't
> > relish having to build on all of those platforms.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, posting proprietary apps to external OS-specific app
> > > > > stores
> > doesn't really work for anyone in a corporate setting.  Neither does
> > making a user re-install an application every time you post a bug fix.
> > In addition, many corporations limit the privileges they give users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sven Reimers
>
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