JavaFX 2 + with LWJGL ( OpenGL )

Mon Apr 7 20:32:52 UTC 2014

I don't know, most of this thread is about things that seems low level
enough to warrant a discussion on this list, we can forgive one or two
"usage" related questions, no?

Cheers,
Mario
Il 07/apr/2014 22:11 "John Smith" <John_Smith at symantec.com> ha scritto:

> Hi Exo,
>
> For general JavaFX usage questions, stackoverflow or the Oracle JavaFX
> forums are probably a better place to ask than the openjfx-dev mailing list.
>
> See for example:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18792822/dragging-an-undecorated-stage-in-javafx
>
> https://community.oracle.com/community/developer/english/java/javafx/javafx_2.0_and_later
>
> Regards,
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: openjfx-dev [mailto:openjfx-dev-bounces at openjdk.java.net] On Behalf
> Of Exo Verse
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 9:53 AM
> To: openjfx-dev at openjdk.java.net
> Subject: Re: JavaFX 2 + with LWJGL ( OpenGL )
>
> Ahh yes, the lwjglfx solution. Yes it is ingenious what they guy did. I
> would have to draw to an image anyhow with other GUI designs, so this is no
> different. And with a buffer, you would only need to update it IF the GUI
> has changed. If no change, then you just use the buffer in OpenGL to paste
> the GUI image back to the screen in a 3D space instead of worrying about
> 2D. No need to worry about FPS dropping either. His approach needs work,
> but the point of his exercise is to prove its doable.
>
> I am at another loss though. I am trying to make my window in JavaFX
> CLICKHOLD and DRAGGABLE.. not a control within it.. The actual window
> itself. Ideas ? My whole source code in a previous post is there if you
> want to see what I have so far. Although you will need to make a 800x600
> image to get it to work. ( NOTE :  Any image for testing purposes would
> work. )
>
> Torak
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Stephen F Northover <
> steve.x.northover at oracle.com> wrote:
>
> > The lwjglfx solution.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > On 2014-04-07 12:45 PM, Exo Verse wrote:
> >
> >> @ Steve
> >> Which approach are you referring too ? The lwjglfx solution or this
> >> transparency background solution ?
> >>
> >> The lwjglfx I am assuming here since its drawing out to an image and
> >> back in again. But if your speaking about my transparency issue I
> >> solved, I didn't realize it was sending out to an image and back
> >> again. Could you please elaborate as to which solution your speaking
> about ?
> >>
> >> Torak
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen F Northover <
> >> steve.x.northover at oracle.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>  This solution is cool, but it draws to an image, sucks out the bits
> >> and
> >>> then converts that to an FX image.  This is a good approach because
> >>> it uses API and does not rely on any internals of FX. Hopefully it
> >>> is fast enough for you.
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2014-04-06 12:41 PM, Exo Verse wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Yea the OpenGL comes with your graphics drivers for your video
> >>> card. So
> >>>> your correct that it doesn't ship with JavaFX. What I have been
> >>>> going on about is trying to find a way to use JavaFX with LWJGL. In
> >>>> case you are unaware, LWJGL just means "Light Weight Java OpenGL"
> >>>> and its a wrapper for the OpenGL API. It's an alternative to JOGL.
> >>>>
> >>>> On another note, as I did a search, Thanks to Tom showing me that
> >>>> link I examined that code and I found something of interest in the
> >>>> JOGL code interface..  well it lead me to a google search, and
> >>>> viola..  LWJGL with JavaFX. :)
> >>>>
> >>>> LINK :
> >>>> https://github.com/Spasi/LWJGL-FX
> >>>>
> >>>> So just wanted to post the link here and say thanks for all of your
> >>>> help.
> >>>> :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Torak
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Tom Schindl <
> >>>> tom.schindl at bestsolution.at
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>   JavaFX does not ship OpenGL binaries on windows you have to build
> >>>> it your
> >>>>
> >>>>> own.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please note:
> >>>>> a) if there are people who manage to write a prism pipeline on
> >>>>> jogl why should you not be able to do the same with lwjgl?
> >>>>> b) the talk i mentionned from felipe and steve show how to get
> >>>>> access to the native OpenGL context and there from you can use any
> >>>>> API you like can't remember which one they used
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tom
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Am 06.04.2014 um 18:18 schrieb Exo Verse <toraktu at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks, but as I mentioned in my original post, I don't like
> >>>>>> JOGL. It doesn't work with my setup. I use LWJGL because its only
> >>>>>> about the OpenGL and not other libraries, and its an easy API
> >>>>>> wrapper to use. There are
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  many
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  many reason I hate JOGL.. but this thread is not about hating on
> >>>>> JOGL,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  its
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  about finding a way to use LWJGL with JavaFX2+.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also, Win32 API calls can use both DirectX and OpenGL APIs. And
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  doesn't
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  matter what Windows OS you're using. I have tested this out from
> >>>>>> Windows
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  XP
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  all the way to Windows 7 - 32/64 Bit with no problem.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>> Torak
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Tom Schindl <
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  tom.schindl at bestsolution.at>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  There is a talk from Felipe and Steve at J1 last year how to
> >>>>> embed
> >>>>>> OpenGL
> >>>>>> into FX using *internal* API!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Search for it on parleys - this does not help you on Win32 which
> >>>>>>> uses directx instead of javafx. BTW there are people doing a
> >>>>>>> JOGL pipeline https://bitbucket.org/dejayberlin/joglfxpipeline/src
> !
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Am 06.04.2014 um 17:25 schrieb Exo Verse <toraktu at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Yea its a shame that using JavaFX as an option along with
> >>>>>>>> OpenGL wasn't even thought of to begin with. I don't understand
> >>>>>>>> why they limit you
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  like
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> they do. Them trying to recreate the wheel and make their own
> >>>>>> version
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 3D interface is just plain stupid if it can't run low level. I
> >>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  2D
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> games and applications with a LOT of usage for JavaFX and its 2D
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> graphics
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> API. But True 3D needs low level other wise its a waste of time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, thanks for the replies. Guess I'll have to stick with
> >>>>>>> using
> >>>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>> sources for my GUI. It's just that I like JavaFX version of its
> >>>>>>>> GUI
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  because
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  it is so simple to use. But not worth it if you can't use it
> >>>>>>> for the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  reason
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  that we the people need it for. Like in my case, game dev.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers.
> >>>>>>>> Torak
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Philipp Dörfler <
> >>>>>>>> phdoerfler at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>   It is not possible to combine JavaFX and OpenGL as it is
> >>>>>>>> right now.
> >>>>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> was discussed on this mailing list some time before as a
> >>>>>>> _possible_
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> future
> >>>>>>>> addition, but I'd be very surprised if Oracle actually chose to
> >>>>>>>> implement this.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Starting with JavaFX 8 there is indeed some kind of "3D support"
> >>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 3D API allows only for the most basic operations. It is still
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> completely
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> scene graph based and you have to live with all restrictions
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> JavaFX
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> imposes on you. Not wanting to say that the 3D API is completely
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> useless,
> >>>>>>>> but I'm afraid that even WPF is more flexible when it comes to
> >>>>>>>> 3D than
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> JavaFX is. For example: As far as I know you can not even
> >>>>>>>>> change the shading model from GL_SMOOTH to GL_FLAT. You could
> >>>>>>>>> work around that by setting the normals yourself though (Same
> >>>>>>>>> for WPF). Also render
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  quality
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> bad when you render an instance of Text in 3D and scale it down
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> example. At least it was when I tried that last time (few
> >>>>>>>>> months ago).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Again, not to say that one can't work with JavaFX's 3D API,
> >>>>>>>>> but it's
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  not
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> raw OpenGL either. As far as I know the JavaFX team wants to be
> >>>>>>> able
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> let
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> the user use his own OpenGL context and let JavaFX render on top
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> that or
> >>>>>>>> add the possibility to ask JavaFX for the underlying context
> >>>>>>>> and mess with that but this is not even officially planned or
> >>>>>>>> included on any roadmap
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (AFAIK) so we can only keep our fingers crossed for that to happen.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Like
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> you I would absolutely LOVE to use JavaFX as a GUI on top of my
> >>>>>> OpenGL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> games.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>>>> Philipp Dörfler
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>   Am 06.04.2014 um 16:31 schrieb Exo Verse <toraktu at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Can you please explain what True 3D means in terms of Low
> >>>>>>>>>> Level API ?
> >>>>>>>>>> Because with LWJGL I can use Low Level API to talk directly
> >>>>>>>>>> to my
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>  Video
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Card. As a game dev, I need every ounce of umph from the card I
> >>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> get,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and using a browser or any other kind of wrapper hasn't proven
> >>>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> efficient. I love LWJGL because of its simplicity. Anything
> >>>>>>>>> extra I
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>  need, I
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  am allowed to make on my own. Example, my own Game Engine.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And that is where I am at. So if your speaking about Nodes, I
> >>>>>>>>>> am
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>  aware
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> there is a hierarchy to the JavaFX2 when setting up the GUI,
> >>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the only thing I knew existed. Could you please elaborate what
> >>>>>>>> makes
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> JavaFX8 a True 3D Low Level interface API ? Because from the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>  presentation,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  you have to go through two layers before you have to get to
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>  OpenGL
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> layer. Where as if I can use LWJGL, I can skip a level.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If I am misinformed on something, please, explain. Because I am
> >>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>  to
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> JavaFX.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>> Torak
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Hervé Girod <
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> herve.girod at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   With Java 8 (JavaFX 8), you now have true 3D Nodes, with
> >>>>>>>>>> camera,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> texturing, etc... However it would still be very interesting
> >>>>>>>>>>> to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>  able
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> control the low-level rendering of JavaFX, such as using LWJGL
> >>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> example.
> >>>>>>>>>> This would allow to render JavaFx content in an external
> >>>>>>>>>> OpenGL context
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> example.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hervé
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>   On 6 avr. 2014, at 14:42, Exo Verse <toraktu at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, I have been working with OpenGL and LWJGL for over 5
> >>>>>>>>>>>> years
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> want to switch over to using JavaFX 2, because of its GUI
> >>>>>>>>> abilities
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> still use LWJGL with it. But I can't seem to find a way to do
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> this. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> saw a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2 hour video that described the features of JavaFX 2 and it even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  shown
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> layout..  OpenGL was there at the bottom with D3D with Prism
> >>>>>>>>> above
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  both
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> them in the hierarchy. I have searched the web and I can't
> >>>>>>>>> find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  prism,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> can't find info on how to talk to opengl and I can't find any
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> tutorials
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> anywhere. So I am posting here to see what I can find. I do
> >>>>>>>>>> NOT
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> JOGL.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I prefer LWJGL. So far, the only thing related to 3D with
> >>>>>>> regards
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  to
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> JavaFX
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> is the very resource intensive Canvas3D, which I can't stand.
> >>>>>>> Any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  ideas ?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Is it not implemented yet and its on its way ? I'm trying to
> >>>>>>>>>> find
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> info
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can about this. If there is nothing for LWJGL, then I can't
> >>>>>>> use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  JavaFX.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Torak
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
>