Innovation (Was: WebView and WebGL)

[Nir Lisker]

I don't mind giving it a go but I wouldn't like doing the work and then it
not getting implemented (if the result is a success).

Personally, I think that the first thing we should do is make a list of
what exactly it is we are trying to do if only to get a sense of the
magnitude and be sure we have enough of the right people to finish it. Then
we would, in all probability, need to write a JEP (
http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/1) which also means we will need a project
lead. Then follow the JEP road and hope for the best I guess.

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 11:29 PM, John-Val Rose <johnvalrose at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nir,
>
> You're not "hijacking" anything - I think it's been established that this
> a broader "3D API support" issue. In fact, even broader than that.
>
> I'm only new on the JavaFX "scene" but I've looked through the history and
> tried to analyse the present and anticipate the future.
>
> It seems that there are 2 main groups of JavaFX users: one that takes it
> as it is and makes the most of it, sometimes in stunning and amazing ways
> but they don't seem to like to rock the boat or try to force the
> improvement of JavaFX itself so much.
>
> Then there's the others who get frustrated, ask for change, offer to
> enable change or put on their boots and make change. A lot of them seem to
> get "burned".
>
> We need people from both camps: one to showcase what can be done with what
> we have in surprising ways and the others to drive innovation.
>
> I'm clearly in the 2nd group and I'm finding that there are quite a few of
> us. I'm not so afraid of "getting burned" as we all take risks in life and
> if you are passionate about something, you just go with it.
>
> But, the most disappointing aspect is that Oracle staff are often "M.I.A."
> when discussing innovation and the future feature plans. As in this thread,
> Oracle haven't exactly been chiming-in (and yes, I know a lot of it has
> occurred outside of normal working hours).
>
> So Nir, Laurent (and the many others who are putting their hands up),
> perhaps we should collaborate and not just "casually". OpenJFX is, after
> all, "open" so perhaps a more formally coordinated team of motivated
> community members can pool our resources and skills and "Just do it" (with
> or without Oracle's help).
>
> I like what you are suggesting and what Sverre is requesting and what
> numerous others are wanting, and I for one *want* them to become realities.
>
> Quite frankly, I don't see these changes and innovations (especially)
> actually being realised any other way.
>
> Comments?
>
> Graciously,
>
> John-Val Rose
> Chief Scientist/Architect
> Rosethorn Technology
>
> > On 10 Sep 2017, at 23:13, Nir Lisker <nlisker at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't want to hijack the WebGL discussion but since it rolled into the
> 3D
> > library territory anyway I'll give my 2 cents.
> >
> > 3D enhancement are indeed not planned for Java10 (at the minimum) and
> > indeed you can't bring your own shader (asked already at
> > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/43622856/can-we-
> implement-our-own-materials-in-javafx),
> > but I agree with Mike - you can, maybe somewhat surprisingly, do quite a
> > lot with what there is.
> >
> > Perhaps the most limiting feature is not supporting industry standards of
> > 3D modeling via converters (import/export). It has been suggested (
> > https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8091851) but last activity was
> 5
> > years ago. As for shaders (materials), lightings etc., from what I
> remember
> > by looking around in the source, it will take some effort to rewrite the
> > API to be able to accept custom ones but it's far from impossible. If
> Phong
> > is implemented there's little reason reason others won't fit (maybe
> > reflective surfaces don't work). Similarly a directional light can be
> based
> > on the implemented point light be using a cone instead of a sphere.
> >
> > We've employed some clever tricks to get adequate "advanced features"
> > results and considering that all of it can be single-handedly run on iOS
> > and Android with Gluon Mobile (specifically JavaFXPorts) I think there
> *is*
> > a future in this direction and I'm willing to team up with whomever is
> > interested provided we can get minimal support from the Oracle team.
>