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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">It is indeed the same in Swing: the initial state for a ButtonGroup is all deselected. Kevin brought up a good example with HTML radio buttons - in effect saying that this
initial state indicates that the user needs to make a choice, which is the most frequent case in an HTML page.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">However, it may or may not be the case in FX. Consider, for example, a case where a file viewer presents a number of modes - (text | hex | image) to present a file. These
modes are mutually exclusive (thus requiring RadioMenuItems or ToggleButtons), but one *must* be selected initially, since it does not make sense to ask the user to make a choice, instead a default choice must be made by the application.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Yes, it can be simply solved by making a default one selected in the code, and that is what is usually done. I just thought that having a property would eliminate extra code.
One can also extend ToggleGroup to provide that functionality, and that is what I have done in the past.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Thank you all for the discussion and insightful comments. Given the negative feedback and availability of easy workaround I withdraw this RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">-andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Nir Lisker <nlisker@gmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 2023/01/21 at 08:22<br>
<b>To: </b>Kevin Rushforth <kevin.rushforth@oracle.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Andy Goryachev <andy.goryachev@oracle.com>, openjfx-dev@openjdk.org <openjfx-dev@openjdk.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[External] : Re: RFC: new property in ToggleGroup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I don't see it being especially useful. GUI's tend to work this way. I remember it was the same in Swing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 1:41 AM Kevin Rushforth <<a href="mailto:kevin.rushforth@oracle.com">kevin.rushforth@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 1/20/2023 2:57 PM, Andy Goryachev wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I just want to add one thing - the initial state of
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">RadioMenuItems added to a menu is unselected, even if they belong to a ToggleGroup.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">One can say that having all unselected radio buttons in a toggle group makes no sense, or perhaps it depends on the application requirements - though
I cannot find an example where it might be needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Yes, it's initially unselected unless the app makes an explicit selection. HTML radio buttons work the same way [1]. Some apps use that to indicate that nothing was selected, but then once you select it there will always be something selected.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">So either we allow two different policies by adding a property to the ToggleGroup, or we proclaim that adding a radio button to a toggle group must
have a side effect of one (first) button to be automatically selected, otherwise the whole group is in inconsistent state (or the app developer must write some code to select one).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
I wouldn't want to change the default behavior, since I can imagine some apps relying on being able to tell if the user has ever selected any of the choices.<br>
<br>
Having two properties would be one solution, presuming we think that we need to provide a way for the app to indicate that it wants us to enforce the invariant of ensuring that the app can't ever get the control in a state where nothing is selected. Although,
since it would be an opt-in, the app could just as easily set the default itself as opposed to setting this new property.<br>
<br>
-- Kevin<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml5_input_type_radio__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!IHUhh-zd22k26dpWxaIMIQPWkUKslHglTRC3u7NgvYYyYi4ZLWiijdogZwo2f9iRPTRGkKW9kGAzk6Vz7Whx$" target="_blank">
https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml5_input_type_radio</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">openjfx-dev <a href="mailto:openjfx-dev-retn@openjdk.org" target="_blank">
<openjfx-dev-retn@openjdk.org></a> on behalf of Kevin Rushforth <a href="mailto:kevin.rushforth@oracle.com" target="_blank">
<kevin.rushforth@oracle.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 2023/01/20 at 12:27<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:openjfx-dev@openjdk.org" target="_blank">openjfx-dev@openjdk.org</a>
<a href="mailto:openjfx-dev@openjdk.org" target="_blank"><openjfx-dev@openjdk.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: RFC: new property in ToggleGroup</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">How common a UI feature is being able to deselect the selected item in a ToggleGroup via the UI such that no item is selected? I don't normally see that
in various apps or toolkits that I am familiar with. What I do see is that either a default item is selected or no item is selected initially (which is the one and only time that there will be no item selected), but in both case, once you make a selection,
there is no way via the UI to deselect the current item. Absent a compelling need, I think the current behavior (once the fix for JDK-8237505 is integrated) is sufficient.<br>
<br>
What do other developers think?<br>
<br>
-- Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On 1/20/2023 11:31 AM, Andy Goryachev wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear colleagues:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In the context of a recent PR
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="https://bugs.openjdk.org/browse/JDK-8237505" target="_blank">https://bugs.openjdk.org/browse/JDK-8237505</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/openjdk/jfx/pull/1002__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!IHUhh-zd22k26dpWxaIMIQPWkUKslHglTRC3u7NgvYYyYi4ZLWiijdogZwo2f9iRPTRGkKW9kGAzkyU-UIVq$" target="_blank">https://github.com/openjdk/jfx/pull/1002</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/stackoverflow.com/questions/57911107/javafx-togglegroup-not-functioning-properly-with-accelerators-radiomenuitem__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!IHUhh-zd22k26dpWxaIMIQPWkUKslHglTRC3u7NgvYYyYi4ZLWiijdogZwo2f9iRPTRGkKW9kGAzk5wy-flH$" target="_blank">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57911107/javafx-togglegroup-not-functioning-properly-with-accelerators-radiomenuitem</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">where a number of RadioMenuItems belonging to a toggle group are added to the menu, we might want to add a new property to the ToggleGroup which controls
whether all items in a group can be deselected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If this property is set, a selected radio menu item can be deselected via either keyboard accelerator or a mouse click. If not, then not only this
operation cannot be performed, but also the first item added to said ToggleGroup gets automatically selected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This should allow for more flexibility in creating menus with RadioMenuItems, but eliminate some boilerplate code required in such cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The new logic would also affect any Toggle, such as ToggleButton.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">What do you think? Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">-andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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