C++ roadmap

[Maurizio Cimadamore]

Hi Samuel,
I think your representation of the work that's going on in Panama is 
very distant from reality.  I understand you would like us to go faster 
-- everyone would (us included!) -- but we've consistently set clear 
short term expectations (e.g. with respect to the main focus being - 
initially - on C support).  Of course, anyone is free to wish the 
project had a different design center, and constructive comments are 
taken into account (as they have been), but endlessly grousing that 
we're not solving the problem you wish we did, or that we're not doing 
it fast enough, (or a combination of both) is not a constructive way to 
participate. And using language like "teasing" is wholly inappropriate 
in this forum.

Over the last year we have shown that we can deliver on the plans we set 
out to do; in fact we ended up doing much more than that, since Panama 
now has the potential to rest on a more solid layered architecture, 
rather than being bundled in a single monolithic deliverable. This 
benefits both framework developers such as yourself, as well as end users.

I realize you might have (very) different ideas on how this project 
should evolve, but I think further discussion on the topic is pointless, 
as the original (legitimate) question in this thread was answered. On a 
more general level, I think it's time for you to decide exactly what you 
want to get out from this 'collaboration' -  how many lines of code, 
tests or bug reports have you actually contributed to this project? In 
our books, that is what 'contributing' looks like.

Maurizio

On 12/08/2019 13:53, Samuel Audet wrote:
> Could you at least define "soon", please? Panama been teasing with C++ 
> support with nothing concrete for over 5 years now, and look, Swift 
> has actually started doing something about it, and not only that but 
> support for GPUs as well:
> https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1154974115893149696
> https://forums.fast.ai/t/lesson-13-2019-discussion-and-wiki/44414/167
> https://groups.google.com/a/tensorflow.org/forum/#!topic/swift/F8DDQBxi7yE 
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12AeCyY7pjRrzuQFWK0QLpjjDHkNInUfvHCwtEgF4lEM 
>
>
> If you cannot actually do something, at least let others do it, even 
> if you don't like their ideas!
>
> Samuel
>
> On 8/12/19 6:34 PM, Maurizio Cimadamore wrote:
>>
>> On 12/08/2019 01:26, Samuel Audet wrote:
>>> Hi, Maurizio,
>>>
>>> I'm happy to hear that progress is happening, but would it be 
>>> possible to make more information about this public? Or if not, 
>>> could you explain why it needs to be kept secret?
>>>
>> Hi Samuel,
>> there's no desire on our part to keep secrets (as I'm sure you've 
>> seen with other parts of this project as well); we've informally 
>> agreed on a way forward and then were all very busy with conferences 
>> and other deliverables, so we don't feel like we're comfortable 
>> enough with what we've discussed before doing some due diligence first.
>>
>> Since our plan is to put together some writeups which describe the 
>> approach, I think it would be better to wait for those to have a more 
>> focussed discussion, rather than having an abstract discussion over 
>> email.
>>
>> Maurizio
>>
>>
>>> Samuel
>>>
>>> On 8/12/19 6:48 AM, Maurizio Cimadamore wrote:
>>>> Hi Luke,
>>>> C++ is not supported at the moment, we will make the download page 
>>>> clearer next time around.
>>>>
>>>> We are starting to experimenting a bit with the C++ support as we 
>>>> speak, so hopefully we will have some news to share on that front 
>>>> soon.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Maurizio
>>>>
>>>> On 11/08/2019 13:52, Luke Hutchison wrote:
>>>>> I tried the most recent Panama JDK 14 build with a C++ header 
>>>>> file, and got
>>>>> the following error message (in the form of a RuntimeException):
>>>>>
>>>>> "Unknown type name 'namespace'"
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't find a switch in the jextract commandline tool for 
>>>>> enabling C++
>>>>> support, so assume this means that C++ is not currently supported. 
>>>>> I don't
>>>>> see any mention of the lack of C++ support on the Panama 
>>>>> "homepage" or
>>>>> documentation, but I saw a claim somewhere online that Panama only 
>>>>> supports
>>>>> C, and has no real immediate plans to support C++. However, 
>>>>> discussion in
>>>>> the panama-dev archives seems to indicate that C++ support was always
>>>>> planned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any experimental switch that will enable the use of C++ 
>>>>> header
>>>>> files right now in Panama? If not, what is the roadmap for C++?