From gnufan42 at protonmail.com  Sun Nov 14 04:12:07 2021
From: gnufan42 at protonmail.com (gnufan42)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 04:12:07 +0000
Subject: Asking a little quesion...
Message-ID: <QJXewT2Han8Qz24bu4BMv4qFfPFR8qccBcOBf1Yb645u7bCIb2U11ePS1vviVYvhFWrz5preO9hgvl9qNz-9j__yezVnBHQ12GClSkoq_ZM=@protonmail.com>

Hi Everyone,
  Is this mailing list suitable for asking trivial technical problems?
Thanks,
Gnufan

From thomas.stuefe at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 06:51:58 2021
From: thomas.stuefe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_St=C3=BCfe?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 07:51:58 +0100
Subject: Asking a little quesion...
In-Reply-To: <QJXewT2Han8Qz24bu4BMv4qFfPFR8qccBcOBf1Yb645u7bCIb2U11ePS1vviVYvhFWrz5preO9hgvl9qNz-9j__yezVnBHQ12GClSkoq_ZM=@protonmail.com>
References: <QJXewT2Han8Qz24bu4BMv4qFfPFR8qccBcOBf1Yb645u7bCIb2U11ePS1vviVYvhFWrz5preO9hgvl9qNz-9j__yezVnBHQ12GClSkoq_ZM=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA-vtUxj=fTNyEeARYJz_aB0BN=8WKd_0oQpTAEro02EeuTvNw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gnufan,

yes. However, it can be a bit deserted. Depending on the topic hotspot-dev
or jdk-dev may be a better choice.

Cheers, Thomas

On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 5:12 AM gnufan42 <gnufan42 at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>   Is this mailing list suitable for asking trivial technical problems?
> Thanks,
> Gnufan
>
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From aph-open at littlepinkcloud.com  Sun Nov 14 09:25:07 2021
From: aph-open at littlepinkcloud.com (Andrew Haley)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 09:25:07 +0000
Subject: Asking a little quesion...
In-Reply-To: <CAA-vtUxj=fTNyEeARYJz_aB0BN=8WKd_0oQpTAEro02EeuTvNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <QJXewT2Han8Qz24bu4BMv4qFfPFR8qccBcOBf1Yb645u7bCIb2U11ePS1vviVYvhFWrz5preO9hgvl9qNz-9j__yezVnBHQ12GClSkoq_ZM=@protonmail.com>
 <CAA-vtUxj=fTNyEeARYJz_aB0BN=8WKd_0oQpTAEro02EeuTvNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c141e50e-4216-3192-66fc-f258cb8a093e@littlepinkcloud.com>

On 11/14/21 06:51, Thomas St?fe wrote:
> yes. However, it can be a bit deserted.

Hey! I'm here. Ask away!  :-)

-- 
Andrew Haley  (he/him)
Java Platform Lead Engineer
Red Hat UK Ltd. <https://www.redhat.com>
https://keybase.io/andrewhaley
EAC8 43EB D3EF DB98 CC77 2FAD A5CD 6035 332F A671

From gnufan42 at protonmail.com  Sun Nov 14 11:09:56 2021
From: gnufan42 at protonmail.com (gnufan42)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 11:09:56 +0000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
Message-ID: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>

Hi,
	I'm trying to port openjdk 8 to DOS. I use cygwin as compilation environment and use djgpp-gcc for the compiler. I have just got started and now I'm recompiling some dependency libraries. Can anybody give me some suggestion about what I'm trying to do?
Thanks,
Gnufan

From david.holmes at oracle.com  Sun Nov 14 21:52:05 2021
From: david.holmes at oracle.com (David Holmes)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 07:52:05 +1000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>

Hi,

On 14/11/2021 9:09 pm, gnufan42 wrote:
> Hi,
> 	I'm trying to port openjdk 8 to DOS. I use cygwin as compilation environment and use djgpp-gcc for the compiler. I have just got started and now I'm recompiling some dependency libraries. Can anybody give me some suggestion about what I'm trying to do?

I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do 
not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads, 
synchronization, virtual memory, ....

It might be possible to write a Java bytecode interpreter that runs on 
DOS, but there would be a lot of missing functionality IMO.

Cheers,
David

> Thanks,
> Gnufan
> 

From thomas.stuefe at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 05:38:58 2021
From: thomas.stuefe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_St=C3=BCfe?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 06:38:58 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <CAA-vtUzxv24Om_Pu-jNHLBjdGymWwUF1E5BTLas745Cv1r4n6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:52 PM David Holmes <david.holmes at oracle.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 14/11/2021 9:09 pm, gnufan42 wrote:
> > Hi,
> >       I'm trying to port openjdk 8 to DOS. I use cygwin as compilation
> environment and use djgpp-gcc for the compiler. I have just got started and
> now I'm recompiling some dependency libraries. Can anybody give me some
> suggestion about what I'm trying to do?
>
> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>
> It might be possible to write a Java bytecode interpreter that runs on
> DOS, but there would be a lot of missing functionality IMO.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
>
You may have more luck with a JVM targetted to embedded, like the CVM
(JavaME). But I believe that would not be a straightforward port either but
require substantial changes. If it can be done at all.

Cheers, Thomas



> > Thanks,
> > Gnufan
> >
>
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From gnufan42 at protonmail.com  Mon Nov 15 14:06:03 2021
From: gnufan42 at protonmail.com (gnufan42)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 14:06:03 +0000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>

David Holmes wrote:
> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
> synchronization, virtual memory, ....

	Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.

Thanks,
Gnufan

From magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com  Mon Nov 15 14:22:06 2021
From: magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com (Magnus Ihse Bursie)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:22:06 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e1982aa-b753-77ad-557e-0973d4e63fd6@oracle.com>



On 2021-11-15 15:06, gnufan42 wrote:
> David Holmes wrote:
>> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
> 	Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.
Oh, that's interesting, I did not know about that.

I assume you're doing this just for the sake of it, and not really to 
use it for anything seriously? If so, it can certainly be a fun 
challenge. :-) Do you have a github repo? I might be able to give you a 
hand here and there. Not really as an Oracle engineer, but on my spare 
time just since it sounds like a cool project. :-)

You need to have reasonably high expectations, however. The entire 
java.desktop package is likely to be out of the question, for instance. 
Also, what kind of memory space are we talking about here? You might be 
hard pressed to run anything else but HelloWorld using zero...

/Magnus


>
> Thanks,
> Gnufan


From david.holmes at oracle.com  Mon Nov 15 22:09:05 2021
From: david.holmes at oracle.com (David Holmes)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 08:09:05 +1000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>

On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
> David Holmes wrote:
>> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
> 
> 	Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.

I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems limited - 
hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually 
supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This 
will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.

Cheers,
David

> Thanks,
> Gnufan
> 

From thomas.stuefe at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 06:19:25 2021
From: thomas.stuefe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_St=C3=BCfe?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 07:19:25 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes <david.holmes at oracle.com>
wrote:

> On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
> > David Holmes wrote:
> >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
> >> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
> >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
> >
> >       Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project.
> They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they
> implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't
> be trying.
>
> I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems limited -
> hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
> supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This
> will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>

I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited for the task. From
the time I worked with it I remember that it was targeted to low-memory
devices, its C code base was extremely portable, it was very configurable
(important for embedded) etc. We ran it with green threading (like Loom
today) and that worked. OpenJDK OTOH relies on native posix threads, and
there is no easy way around that.

I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in 2006. But I could not
find the project page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME

PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what happened with that
project?

Cheers, Thomas


>
> > Thanks,
> > Gnufan
> >
>
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From shade at redhat.com  Tue Nov 16 08:59:36 2021
From: shade at redhat.com (Aleksey Shipilev)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:59:36 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <08b08f3a-874e-bbf3-8456-8371783abe69@redhat.com>

On 11/14/21 12:09 PM, gnufan42 wrote:
> I'm trying to port openjdk 8 to DOS. I use cygwin as compilation environment and use djgpp-gcc
> for the compiler.
I'd suggest doing two things:

  a) Try to port mainline JDK (https://github.com/openjdk/jdk), not JDK 8. It should be more 
pleasant to work with, the minor "shared code" problems could be PR-ed right away;

  b) Try to port x86_64 Zero (--with-jvm-variants=zero) VM first. That would avoid dealing with a 
whole lot of OS-specific code, including stack management for deopts, OSR, arch-specific signal 
handling, all that kind of stuff. Porting src/hotspot/os_cpu/linux_zero to 
src/hotspot/os_cpu/dos_zero would be in order.

-- 
Thanks,
-Aleksey


From gnufan42 at protonmail.com  Tue Nov 16 14:00:54 2021
From: gnufan42 at protonmail.com (gnufan42)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:00:54 +0000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <1GKlCBK5OIvFb-5uA676Ww7eytGucXTFTZpiLg80DWnqIhJkzBNgcL9jVOXQVOf0odP1T-y5sxjdvQ3X594ZO43_ev4fM1mjJ_O75JQ6FZ8=@protonmail.com>

On Tuesday, November 16th, 2021 at 6:09 AM, David Holmes <david.holmes at oracle.com> wrote:

>On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>>David Holmes wrote:
>>>I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>>>not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>>>synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>>Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.
>
>I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems limited -
>hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
>supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This
>will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>Cheers,
>David

	Well, you're right. I have just tested the pthread library and it doesn't work. :( However, I saw the others said that it works so I will try to find out what I did wrong.
Thanks,
Gnufan

From magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com  Wed Nov 17 12:57:02 2021
From: magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com (Magnus Ihse Bursie)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:57:02 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>



On 2021-11-16 07:19, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes 
> <david.holmes at oracle.com> wrote:
>
>     On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>     > David Holmes wrote:
>     >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as
>     you do
>     >> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>     >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>     >
>     >? ? ? ?Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP
>     project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected
>     mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including
>     pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.
>
>     I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems
>     limited -
>     hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
>     supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This
>     will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>
>     Cheers,
>     David
>
>
> I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited for the task. 
> From the time I worked with it I remember that it was targeted to 
> low-memory devices, its C code base was extremely portable, it was 
> very configurable (important for embedded) etc. We ran it with green 
> threading (like Loom today) and that worked. OpenJDK OTOH relies on 
> native posix threads, and there is no easy way around that.
>
> I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in 2006. But I could 
> not find the project page.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME
>
> PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what happened with 
> that project?
Wikipedia has links to archive.org. 
https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump for the source code.

/Magnus


>
> Cheers, Thomas
>
>
>     > Thanks,
>     > Gnufan
>     >
>
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From thomas.stuefe at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 13:27:01 2021
From: thomas.stuefe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_St=C3=BCfe?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 14:27:01 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <CAA-vtUwEwxqdcj2NXQmdNLZGJcG25DKfVX4tuyUFA_AH7DbpVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:57 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie <
magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 2021-11-16 07:19, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes <david.holmes at oracle.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>> > David Holmes wrote:
>> >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>> >> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>> >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>> >
>> >       Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project.
>> They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they
>> implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't
>> be trying.
>>
>> I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems limited -
>> hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
>> supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This
>> will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>
> I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited for the task.
> From the time I worked with it I remember that it was targeted to
> low-memory devices, its C code base was extremely portable, it was very
> configurable (important for embedded) etc. We ran it with green threading
> (like Loom today) and that worked. OpenJDK OTOH relies on native posix
> threads, and there is no easy way around that.
>
> I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in 2006. But I could not
> find the project page.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME
>
> PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what happened with
> that project?
>
> Wikipedia has links to archive.org.
> https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump for the source code.
>
> /Magnus
>
>
>
Ah, I missed that. But seems this project is not actively maintained
anymore. Pity.


>
> Cheers, Thomas
>
>
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> > Gnufan
>> >
>>
>
>
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From aph-open at littlepinkcloud.com  Wed Nov 17 13:46:25 2021
From: aph-open at littlepinkcloud.com (Andrew Haley)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:46:25 +0000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <1GKlCBK5OIvFb-5uA676Ww7eytGucXTFTZpiLg80DWnqIhJkzBNgcL9jVOXQVOf0odP1T-y5sxjdvQ3X594ZO43_ev4fM1mjJ_O75JQ6FZ8=@protonmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
 <1GKlCBK5OIvFb-5uA676Ww7eytGucXTFTZpiLg80DWnqIhJkzBNgcL9jVOXQVOf0odP1T-y5sxjdvQ3X594ZO43_ev4fM1mjJ_O75JQ6FZ8=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <7467af35-413f-d338-e939-155019199883@littlepinkcloud.com>

On 11/16/21 14:00, gnufan42 wrote:
> 	Well, you're right. I have just tested the pthread library and it doesn't work. :( However, I saw the others said that it works so I will try to find out what I did wrong.

The significant challenges are things like making sure e.g. signals are
sent to the correct thread.

-- 
Andrew Haley  (he/him)
Java Platform Lead Engineer
Red Hat UK Ltd. <https://www.redhat.com>
https://keybase.io/andrewhaley
EAC8 43EB D3EF DB98 CC77 2FAD A5CD 6035 332F A671

From gnufan42 at protonmail.com  Thu Nov 18 13:49:36 2021
From: gnufan42 at protonmail.com (gnufan42)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:49:36 +0000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <3e1982aa-b753-77ad-557e-0973d4e63fd6@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
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 <3e1982aa-b753-77ad-557e-0973d4e63fd6@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <XOf4dyWK8N2kfHr0gcWfSNznw4n9oLs03XezY8Z4Ae0Z-lVPJqyxyNBNF0j6kn_ibiOhLhrToGHLlqKQzZv5DstxriFAJtKMEp09rBbKti8=@protonmail.com>

On Monday, November 15th, 2021 at 10:22 PM, Magnus Ihse Bursie <magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:

>On 2021-11-15 15:06, gnufan42 wrote:
>>David Holmes wrote:
>>>I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>>>not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>>> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>>>Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.
>Oh, that's interesting, I did not know about that.
>I assume you're doing this just for the sake of it, and not really to
>use it for anything seriously? If so, it can certainly be a fun
>challenge. :-) Do you have a github repo? I might be able to give you a
>hand here and there. Not really as an Oracle engineer, but on my spare
>time just since it sounds like a cool project. :-)
>You need to have reasonably high expectations, however. The entire
>java.desktop package is likely to be out of the question, for instance.
>Also, what kind of memory space are we talking about here? You might be
>hard pressed to run anything else but HelloWorld using zero...
>/Magnus
>>Thanks,
>>Gnufan
Hi Magnus,
  I decided to port JavaME instead finally. Also, I got the source code of it from you. Should I upload that to github directly?
Thanks,
Gnufan

From magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com  Fri Nov 19 11:25:24 2021
From: magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com (Magnus Ihse Bursie)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 12:25:24 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <CAA-vtUwEwxqdcj2NXQmdNLZGJcG25DKfVX4tuyUFA_AH7DbpVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUwEwxqdcj2NXQmdNLZGJcG25DKfVX4tuyUFA_AH7DbpVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4afec39c-c3dc-9efb-abcb-bf0c156baf2a@oracle.com>

On 2021-11-17 14:27, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:57 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie 
> <magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 2021-11-16 07:19, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes
>>     <david.holmes at oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>>         On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>>         > David Holmes wrote:
>>         >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to
>>         DOS as you do
>>         >> not have any of the necessary operating system support for
>>         threads,
>>         >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>>         >
>>         >? ? ? ?Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the
>>         DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit
>>         protected mode, they implemented a lot of POSIX functions,
>>         including pthread. Otherwise I won't be trying.
>>
>>         I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems
>>         limited -
>>         hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
>>         supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome
>>         :) This
>>         will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>         David
>>
>>
>>     I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited for the
>>     task. From the time I worked with it I remember that it was
>>     targeted to low-memory devices, its C code base was extremely
>>     portable, it was very configurable (important for embedded) etc.
>>     We ran it with green threading (like Loom today) and that worked.
>>     OpenJDK OTOH relies on native posix threads, and there is no easy
>>     way around that.
>>
>>     I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in 2006. But I
>>     could not find the project page.
>>
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME
>>
>>     PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what happened
>>     with that project?
>     Wikipedia has links to archive.org <http://archive.org>.
>     https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump for the source code.
>
>     /Magnus
>
>
>
> Ah, I missed that. But seems this project is not actively maintained 
> anymore. Pity.
Yes, it's a shame. I felt sorry for the source code, just lying rotting 
there as a SVN dump on archive.org, so I installed subversion, made a 
few scripts, and converted it to git and put it on Github. [1]

That won't bring active development back, but at least the source code 
is accessible for archaeological reasons. And maybe it'll be enough to 
get someone to bring it back to life...

/Magnus

[1] https://github.com/magicus/phoneME

>>
>>     Cheers, Thomas
>>
>>
>>         > Thanks,
>>         > Gnufan
>>         >
>>
>
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From thomas.stuefe at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 12:05:01 2021
From: thomas.stuefe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_St=C3=BCfe?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:05:01 +0100
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <4afec39c-c3dc-9efb-abcb-bf0c156baf2a@oracle.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
 <5c9d5f66-aeb8-041b-b2f5-fa21a3c45cc8@oracle.com>
 <a36aryHZVoPKLAWvJ355UQ3jdCFlZHjRtFbX0PbupZ41HAFF-oGaFE7593ws-JQs2g5I39z3W67XFe5hEndKkepQriy2XQipnHx9gWlIPWY=@protonmail.com>
 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUwEwxqdcj2NXQmdNLZGJcG25DKfVX4tuyUFA_AH7DbpVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4afec39c-c3dc-9efb-abcb-bf0c156baf2a@oracle.com>
Message-ID: <CAA-vtUx+mVPORnVLDGMU_-26xmet=iveRJdRS8DcMecust2DGw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 12:25 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie <
magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:

> On 2021-11-17 14:27, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:57 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie <
> magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 2021-11-16 07:19, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes <david.holmes at oracle.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>>> > David Holmes wrote:
>>> >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>>> >> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>>> >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>>> >
>>> >       Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project.
>>> They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they
>>> implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't
>>> be trying.
>>>
>>> I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems limited -
>>> hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
>>> supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This
>>> will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>
>> I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited for the task.
>> From the time I worked with it I remember that it was targeted to
>> low-memory devices, its C code base was extremely portable, it was very
>> configurable (important for embedded) etc. We ran it with green threading
>> (like Loom today) and that worked. OpenJDK OTOH relies on native posix
>> threads, and there is no easy way around that.
>>
>> I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in 2006. But I could
>> not find the project page.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME
>>
>> PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what happened with
>> that project?
>>
>> Wikipedia has links to archive.org.
>> https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump for the source code.
>>
>> /Magnus
>>
>>
>>
> Ah, I missed that. But seems this project is not actively maintained
> anymore. Pity.
>
> Yes, it's a shame. I felt sorry for the source code, just lying rotting
> there as a SVN dump on archive.org, so I installed subversion, made a few
> scripts, and converted it to git and put it on Github. [1]
>
> That won't bring active development back, but at least the source code is
> accessible for archaeological reasons. And maybe it'll be enough to get
> someone to bring it back to life...
>
> /Magnus
>
> [1] https://github.com/magicus/phoneME
>
>
This is awesome, Magnus! And with full commit history too.

So many memories :)
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From ebresie at gmail.com  Sun Nov 21 13:44:22 2021
From: ebresie at gmail.com (Eric Bresie)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 07:44:22 -0600
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <CAA-vtUx+mVPORnVLDGMU_-26xmet=iveRJdRS8DcMecust2DGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
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 <17d068ac-0b51-a6cb-4f09-f82132fbf73f@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUwEwxqdcj2NXQmdNLZGJcG25DKfVX4tuyUFA_AH7DbpVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4afec39c-c3dc-9efb-abcb-bf0c156baf2a@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUx+mVPORnVLDGMU_-26xmet=iveRJdRS8DcMecust2DGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHw6w1RZOJBimDOaVxascfa8ZrbcQthjsAar4yUO_zUDDS8r7g@mail.gmail.com>

At the time of phoneME there was also some licensing concerns if it was to
be used on a specific (phone) platform which resulted in a lot of
fragmentation in the JavaME market with each platform having to implement
their own native flavor and consider licensing fees.

I believe the idea with openjdk and the assorted profiles and modularity
 related changes that phoneME (java ME) more or less became OBE open source
jdk.  The rational being rather than maintain a Java and JavaME flavor of
code base, have a single Java based (with modularize compact profile
running on embedded platforms.

From
https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/dev-tools/article/21801464/11-myths-about-embedded-java

? In JDK 8, steps were taken to address this with the introduction of three
compact profiles, the smallest of which only requires a little over 10 MB
of storage. In JDK 9, scheduled for release in Spring 2017, the JDK will be
fully modularized so that application developers can select only the
modules they need to run their application. ?

On a related note
https://minexew.github.io/2021/04/10/phoneme.html

Eric

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 6:05 AM Thomas St?fe <thomas.stuefe at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 12:25 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie <
> magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-11-17 14:27, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:57 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie <
>> magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2021-11-16 07:19, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes <david.holmes at oracle.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>>>> > David Holmes wrote:
>>>> >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>>>> >> not have any of the necessary operating system support for threads,
>>>> >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>>>> >
>>>> >       Well, these difficulties are all overcame by the DJGPP project.
>>>> They use DPMI to let the code runs in 32-bit protected mode, they
>>>> implemented a lot of POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't
>>>> be trying.
>>>>
>>>> I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support still seems limited -
>>>> hard to find an accurate current description of what is actually
>>>> supported. So I would not say these difficulties are overcome :) This
>>>> will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>
>>> I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited for the task.
>>> From the time I worked with it I remember that it was targeted to
>>> low-memory devices, its C code base was extremely portable, it was very
>>> configurable (important for embedded) etc. We ran it with green threading
>>> (like Loom today) and that worked. OpenJDK OTOH relies on native posix
>>> threads, and there is no easy way around that.
>>>
>>> I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in 2006. But I could
>>> not find the project page.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME
>>>
>>> PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what happened with
>>> that project?
>>>
>>> Wikipedia has links to archive.org.
>>> https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump for the source code.
>>>
>>> /Magnus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Ah, I missed that. But seems this project is not actively maintained
>> anymore. Pity.
>>
>> Yes, it's a shame. I felt sorry for the source code, just lying rotting
>> there as a SVN dump on archive.org, so I installed subversion, made a
>> few scripts, and converted it to git and put it on Github. [1]
>>
>> That won't bring active development back, but at least the source code is
>> accessible for archaeological reasons. And maybe it'll be enough to get
>> someone to bring it back to life...
>>
>> /Magnus
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/magicus/phoneME
>>
>>
> This is awesome, Magnus! And with full commit history too.
>
> So many memories :)
>
>
> --
Eric Bresie
ebresie at gmail.com
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From david.holmes at oracle.com  Sun Nov 21 23:46:09 2021
From: david.holmes at oracle.com (David Holmes)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:46:09 +1000
Subject: Porting to i686-msdosdjgpp
In-Reply-To: <CAHw6w1RZOJBimDOaVxascfa8ZrbcQthjsAar4yUO_zUDDS8r7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM4RWyduZTAZqdt5zhPVlw8DeVHnHmosNPxdlAVjIdzHiN9afheB5OGWzul1IGZ2s_QpF-yHdiBDZHVtTb4mKYa4SNB7Uwt9_me272AfssI=@protonmail.com>
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 <CAA-vtUzdz3V3SLezbudQhdtgobfe6CkoQF8iU7hawfMcLYJzQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <708c2a3a-a4d5-be8b-0eef-5892541bcc36@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUwEwxqdcj2NXQmdNLZGJcG25DKfVX4tuyUFA_AH7DbpVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4afec39c-c3dc-9efb-abcb-bf0c156baf2a@oracle.com>
 <CAA-vtUx+mVPORnVLDGMU_-26xmet=iveRJdRS8DcMecust2DGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHw6w1RZOJBimDOaVxascfa8ZrbcQthjsAar4yUO_zUDDS8r7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58074123-ad56-bd28-1711-0ce28fcfa82b@oracle.com>

On 21/11/2021 11:44 pm, Eric Bresie wrote:
> At the time of phoneME there was also some licensing concerns if it was 
> to be used on a specific (phone) platform which resulted in a lot of 
> fragmentation in the JavaME market with each platform having to 
> implement their own native flavor and consider licensing fees.
> 
> I believe the idea with openjdk and the assorted profiles and modularity 
>  ?related changes that phoneME (java ME) more or less became OBE open 
> source jdk.? The rational being rather than maintain a Java and JavaME 
> flavor of code base, have a single Java based (with modularize compact 
> profile running on embedded platforms.

Not quite. Java ME and running Java on phones was a completely different 
operating space. What the Compact Profiles did was allow for Java SE 
Embedded to be brought into the fold of OpenJDK (which was Java SE). It 
was still targeted at high-end "embedded" devices, not the small devices 
that Java ME targeted. For SE on other devices the Mobile project was 
formed:

http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mobile/

David
-----

>  From
> https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/dev-tools/article/21801464/11-myths-about-embedded-java 
> <https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/dev-tools/article/21801464/11-myths-about-embedded-java>
> 
> ??In JDK 8, steps were taken to address this with the introduction of 
> three compact profiles, the smallest of which only requires a little 
> over 10 MB of storage. In JDK 9, scheduled for release in Spring 2017, 
> the JDK will be fully modularized so that application developers can 
> select only the modules they need to run their application. ?
> 
> On a related?note
> https://minexew.github.io/2021/04/10/phoneme.html 
> <https://minexew.github.io/2021/04/10/phoneme.html>
> 
> Eric
> 
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 6:05 AM Thomas St?fe <thomas.stuefe at gmail.com 
> <mailto:thomas.stuefe at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 12:25 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie
>     <magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com
>     <mailto:magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com>> wrote:
> 
>         On 2021-11-17 14:27, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>>
>>
>>         On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:57 PM Magnus Ihse Bursie
>>         <magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com
>>         <mailto:magnus.ihse.bursie at oracle.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>             On 2021-11-16 07:19, Thomas St?fe wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:09 PM David Holmes
>>>             <david.holmes at oracle.com
>>>             <mailto:david.holmes at oracle.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 On 16/11/2021 12:06 am, gnufan42 wrote:
>>>                 > David Holmes wrote:
>>>                 >> I'd say it is technically impossible to port
>>>                 OpenJDK to DOS as you do
>>>                 >> not have any of the necessary operating system
>>>                 support for threads,
>>>                 >> synchronization, virtual memory, ....
>>>                 >
>>>                 >? ? ? ?Well, these difficulties are all overcame by
>>>                 the DJGPP project. They use DPMI to let the code runs
>>>                 in 32-bit protected mode, they implemented a lot of
>>>                 POSIX functions, including pthread. Otherwise I won't
>>>                 be trying.
>>>
>>>                 I'd never heard of DJGPP but the pthread support
>>>                 still seems limited -
>>>                 hard to find an accurate current description of what
>>>                 is actually
>>>                 supported. So I would not say these difficulties are
>>>                 overcome :) This
>>>                 will be an exceedingly complex and challenging project.
>>>
>>>                 Cheers,
>>>                 David
>>>
>>>
>>>             I still think that the CVM (JavaME) may be better suited
>>>             for the task. From the time I worked with it I remember
>>>             that it was targeted to low-memory devices, its C code
>>>             base was extremely portable, it was very configurable
>>>             (important for embedded) etc. We ran it with green
>>>             threading (like Loom today) and that worked. OpenJDK OTOH
>>>             relies on native posix threads, and there is no easy way
>>>             around that.
>>>
>>>             I seemed to remember that Sun open-sourced JavaME in
>>>             2006. But I could not find the project page.
>>>
>>>             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition>
>>>             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME
>>>             <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneME>
>>>
>>>             PhoneME website seems defunct now. Does anyone know what
>>>             happened with that project?
>>             Wikipedia has links to archive.org <http://archive.org>.
>>             https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump
>>             <https://archive.org/details/phoneme-svn.dump> for the
>>             source code.
>>
>>             /Magnus
>>
>>
>>
>>         Ah, I missed that. But seems this project is not actively
>>         maintained anymore. Pity.
>         Yes, it's a shame. I felt sorry for the source code, just lying
>         rotting there as a SVN dump on archive.org <http://archive.org>,
>         so I installed subversion, made a few scripts, and converted it
>         to git and put it on Github. [1]
> 
>         That won't bring active development back, but at least the
>         source code is accessible for archaeological reasons. And maybe
>         it'll be enough to get someone to bring it back to life...
> 
>         /Magnus
> 
>         [1] https://github.com/magicus/phoneME
>         <https://github.com/magicus/phoneME>
> 
> 
>     This is awesome,?Magnus! And with full commit?history too.
> 
>     So many memories :)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Eric Bresie
> ebresie at gmail.com <mailto:ebresie at gmail.com>