From francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr Wed Nov 20 12:47:26 2013 From: francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr (Francis ANDRE) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 21:47:26 +0100 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> Message-ID: <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> Hi Coin List I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly that there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents to the coin distributor!... I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey guy, what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let me explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int and the allocation of the array by myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array starts at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of the base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower bound and an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point of view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in many others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like int[] myints; myints = new array[-100:100]; myints[-100] = 0; myints[0] = 0; with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of array range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true That's all folks! FA Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : > Hi Coin list > > I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious slang for a > non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding -- and I > am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near future? > > Francis > > From isidore at setgame.com Wed Nov 20 13:28:05 2013 From: isidore at setgame.com (Llewellyn Falco) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:28:05 -0800 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> Message-ID: While these are interesting cases. Why should this be a language feature as opposed to a custom implementing class? On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Francis ANDRE < francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr> wrote: > Hi Coin List > > I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly > that > there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents > to the > coin distributor!... > > > I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey > guy, > what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let me > explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as > > int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int > > and the allocation of the array by > > myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int > myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array > starts > at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 > myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 > > > This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is > considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of > the > base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower > bound and > an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point of > view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in > many > others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) > > Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like > > int[] myints; > myints = new array[-100:100]; > myints[-100] = 0; > myints[0] = 0; > > with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of > array > range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 > > myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception > myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true > > That's all folks! > > FA > > > > > > > Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : > > Hi Coin list > > > > I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious > slang for a > > non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding -- > and I > > am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near > future? > > > > Francis > > > > > > > -- Llewellyn Falco www.approvaltests.com www.teachingkidsprogramming.org From francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr Wed Nov 20 13:35:25 2013 From: francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr (Francis ANDRE) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:35:25 +0100 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> Message-ID: <528D2B1D.9040804@orange.fr> Hi Llewellyn Le 20/11/2013 22:28, Llewellyn Falco a ?crit : > While these are interesting cases. > Why should this be a language feature as opposed to a custom implementing class? I do not catch you question. Could you be more explicit? > > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Francis ANDRE > > > wrote: > > Hi Coin List > > I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly that > there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents > to the > coin distributor!... > > > I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey guy, > what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let me > explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as > > int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int > > and the allocation of the array by > > myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int > myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array starts > at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 > myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 > > > This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is > considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of the > base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower > bound and > an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point of > view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in many > others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) > > Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like > > int[] myints; > myints = new array[-100:100]; > myints[-100] = 0; > myints[0] = 0; > > with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of array > range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 > > myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception > myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true > > That's all folks! > > FA > > > > > > > Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : > > Hi Coin list > > > > I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious > slang for a > > non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding -- > and I > > am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near > future? > > > > Francis > > > > > > > > > > -- > Llewellyn Falco > www.approvaltests.com > www.teachingkidsprogramming.org > From isidore at setgame.com Wed Nov 20 13:54:50 2013 From: isidore at setgame.com (Llewellyn Falco) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:54:50 -0800 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: <528D2B1D.9040804@orange.fr> References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> <528D2B1D.9040804@orange.fr> Message-ID: I could make a class new TrueArray(-100, 100); of course this would also work with just a HashMap, also: new array[100]; isn't legal java syntax unless you have defined a class name 'array' anyways, the point was; Does adding this to the core language really improve the language or just clutter it? perhaps a better way of phrasing it would be how much java code and mistakes are going to be improved by adding this to the language. if that number isn't very large, it's probably better to keep it in user libraries. On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Francis ANDRE < francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr> wrote: > Hi Llewellyn > > > Le 20/11/2013 22:28, Llewellyn Falco a ?crit : > > While these are interesting cases. > Why should this be a language feature as opposed to a custom implementing > class? > > I do not catch you question. Could you be more explicit? > > > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Francis ANDRE < > francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr> wrote: > >> Hi Coin List >> >> I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly >> that >> there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents >> to the >> coin distributor!... >> >> >> I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey >> guy, >> what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let >> me >> explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as >> >> int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int >> >> and the allocation of the array by >> >> myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int >> myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array >> starts >> at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 >> myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 >> >> >> This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is >> considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of >> the >> base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower >> bound and >> an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point >> of >> view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in >> many >> others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) >> >> Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like >> >> int[] myints; >> myints = new array[-100:100]; >> myints[-100] = 0; >> myints[0] = 0; >> >> with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of >> array >> range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 >> >> myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception >> myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true >> >> That's all folks! >> >> FA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : >> > Hi Coin list >> > >> > I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious >> slang for a >> > non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding >> -- and I >> > am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near >> future? >> > >> > Francis >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > Llewellyn Falco > www.approvaltests.com > www.teachingkidsprogramming.org > > > -- Llewellyn Falco www.approvaltests.com www.teachingkidsprogramming.org From benjamin.john.evans at gmail.com Wed Nov 20 14:20:48 2013 From: benjamin.john.evans at gmail.com (Ben Evans) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:20:48 +0000 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> Message-ID: Hi Francis, I think it's fair to say that this email list has reached the end of its life, and should be considered no longer active. >From my experience with OpenJDK and the development of the language, I recommend that you develop a prototype implementation against OpenJDK & then contact the relevant OpenJDK group, after you have a working prototype. You will get a great deal further if you show up with a working prototype, even if it is a bit basic, than with an idea alone. Thanks, Ben On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Francis ANDRE < francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr> wrote: > Hi Coin List > > I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly > that > there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents > to the > coin distributor!... > > > I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey > guy, > what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let me > explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as > > int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int > > and the allocation of the array by > > myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int > myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array > starts > at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 > myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 > > > This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is > considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of > the > base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower > bound and > an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point of > view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in > many > others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) > > Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like > > int[] myints; > myints = new array[-100:100]; > myints[-100] = 0; > myints[0] = 0; > > with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of > array > range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 > > myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception > myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true > > That's all folks! > > FA > > > > > > > Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : > > Hi Coin list > > > > I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious > slang for a > > non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding -- > and I > > am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near > future? > > > > Francis > > > > > > > From joe.darcy at oracle.com Wed Nov 20 16:31:55 2013 From: joe.darcy at oracle.com (Joe Darcy) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:31:55 -0800 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> Message-ID: <528D547B.8090700@oracle.com> Hello, On 11/20/2013 2:20 PM, Ben Evans wrote: > Hi Francis, > > I think it's fair to say that this email list has reached the end of its > life, and should be considered no longer active. Yes, I will be looking into making the list formally inactive / archived. We currently have no plans to run an open call for proposals as was done for Coin in JDK 7. Language changes, and other substantial changes to the platform, will be managed in the JEP process: http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/1 There is no need to send additional language proposals to this list at this time. Cheers, -Joe > > >From my experience with OpenJDK and the development of the language, I > recommend that you develop a prototype implementation against OpenJDK & > then contact the relevant OpenJDK group, after you have a working prototype. > > You will get a great deal further if you show up with a working prototype, > even if it is a bit basic, than with an idea alone. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Francis ANDRE < > francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr> wrote: > >> Hi Coin List >> >> I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly >> that >> there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents >> to the >> coin distributor!... >> >> >> I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey >> guy, >> what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let me >> explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as >> >> int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int >> >> and the allocation of the array by >> >> myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int >> myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array >> starts >> at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 >> myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 >> >> >> This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is >> considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of >> the >> base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower >> bound and >> an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point of >> view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in >> many >> others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) >> >> Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like >> >> int[] myints; >> myints = new array[-100:100]; >> myints[-100] = 0; >> myints[0] = 0; >> >> with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of >> array >> range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 >> >> myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception >> myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true >> >> That's all folks! >> >> FA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : >>> Hi Coin list >>> >>> I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious >> slang for a >>> non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding -- >> and I >>> am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near >> future? >>> Francis >>> >>> >> >> From francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr Wed Nov 20 22:34:10 2013 From: francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr (Francis ANDRE) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 07:34:10 +0100 Subject: Hello Coin In-Reply-To: <528D547B.8090700@oracle.com> References: <5267669D.9080308@orange.fr> <528D1FDE.9010605@orange.fr> <528D547B.8090700@oracle.com> Message-ID: <528DA962.9020702@orange.fr> HI Joe Le 21/11/2013 01:31, Joe Darcy a ?crit : > > > We currently have no plans to run an open call for proposals as was done for > Coin in JDK 7. Language changes, and other substantial changes to the > platform, will be managed in the JEP process: > > http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/1 > > There is no need to send additional language proposals to this list at this time. Ok no problem... I did not check the JEP subdirectory at http://openjdk.java.net...sorry for the noise Thanks > > Cheers, > > -Joe > >> >> >From my experience with OpenJDK and the development of the language, I >> recommend that you develop a prototype implementation against OpenJDK & >> then contact the relevant OpenJDK group, after you have a working prototype. >> >> You will get a great deal further if you show up with a working prototype, >> even if it is a bit basic, than with an idea alone. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ben >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Francis ANDRE < >> francis.andre.kampbell at orange.fr> wrote: >> >>> Hi Coin List >>> >>> I did not receive any answer on my previous request which means certainly >>> that >>> there is no more open call for proposals. Anyway, I will bring my 2 cents >>> to the >>> coin distributor!... >>> >>> >>> I would like Java to offer "true" array/arrays... And you would say: Hey >>> guy, >>> what is a "true" array, Java gets already the array concept... Well, let me >>> explain a little bit. In java one declares an array of int for example as >>> >>> int[] myInts; // myInts, an array of int >>> >>> and the allocation of the array by >>> >>> myints = new array[10]; // myints is an array of 10 int >>> myints[0] = 90; // the int at index 0 is now 90. The index of an array >>> starts >>> at 0 and ends at myints.length - 1 >>> myints[9] = 99; // the int at index 9 is now 99 >>> >>> >>> This view of an array starting at 0 is more an implementer view that is >>> considering the first element of the array is starting at the offset 0 of >>> the >>> base of the array....But in mathematics, an array has usually an lower >>> bound and >>> an upper bound which are not always 0 and length - 1. Thus from my point of >>> view, an "true" array should have a lower bound and an upper bound as in >>> many >>> others computer languages (as Algol, PL/1 for example) >>> >>> Thus, I would propose a more abstract view of an array like >>> >>> int[] myints; >>> myints = new array[-100:100]; >>> myints[-100] = 0; >>> myints[0] = 0; >>> >>> with obviously all adapted controls and exception like an index out of >>> array >>> range and a length = upperbound - lowerbound + 1 >>> >>> myints[500] = 0; // throw an index out of array bound exception >>> myints.length == upperbound - lowerbound + 1 // this is true >>> >>> That's all folks! >>> >>> FA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 23/10/2013 08:03, Francis ANDRE a ?crit : >>>> Hi Coin list >>>> >>>> I discovered this discussion list recently -- coin is not an obvious >>> slang for a >>>> non US guy, so the discovery was more by curiosity than understanding -- >>> and I >>>> am wondering if there will be another open call for proposals in near >>> future? >>>> Francis >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > >