It's not too late for access control

[Sanne Grinovero]

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Alan Bateman <Alan.Bateman at oracle.com> wrote:
> On 15/07/2016 12:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
>
>> :
>> Hi Alan, you're spot-on about JEP-220: myself and my colleagues have
>> sent patches to numerous projects to which I normally don't contribute
>> to, just to fix our dependencies, such as Maven.
>
> Good to hear this.
>
>>
>> But please be aware of how many of the OSS projects in the Java
>> community are organised: some will have integration tests running in
>> modular environments, like WildFly which is based on David Lloyd's
>> JBoss Modules, or for OSGi tests it seems popular to use Apache Karaf.
>> Many others don't have any "modular" or "container" integration tests
>> and are not aware of what's coming.. since in my team we package some
>> of these for usage in modular environments, I'm painfully aware of
>> problems coming but it's no easy task to convince them for the need to
>> test now.
>
> I understand, we've found it hard in the past to get projects to test too.
> However, for JDK 9 then I see a lot more projects engaged and actively
> testing. As we've been saying at conferences for several years now, the
> changes in JDK 9 have a huge impact on the eco system, this update is not a
> JDK-only update.
>
>>
>> When I get in touch to try convey a sense of urgent need to test
>> Jigsaw, and sometimes successfully, then people realise that their
>> whole toolchain, not least the testing environment, blows up with
>> errors which are often too complex or simply too unrelated to the
>> project itself.
>
> There are folks working on several Oracle's products trying out JDK 9 builds
> too. A lot of issues that I hear about tend to be somewhat mundane but they
> are some complicated issues too - particularly around deploying upgraded
> versions of the components that overlap with what is the JDK (the EE modules
> and CORBA mostly).
>
>> So what happens is that such projects go to communities like WildFly
>> and OSGi for advice, where the typical answer is among the lines "I
>> know, we're discussing such things on the jigsaw-dev list, watch
>> thread XY, or watch #MyIssueCategory on Mark's blogs".
>>
>> In short, please be aware that David Lloyd isn't making such
>> suggestions just for WildFly itself, but is pre-processing and
>> summarising feedback from hundreds of projects there. The ones who
>> care are lurking on this list hoping to see answers for issues which
>> have been raised already, but not many feel competent enough to join
>> the conversation directly (and this might be a good thing!).
>
> Do you know if these hundreds of projects are really trying out modules?

The only one I know of is Hibernate Validator, Gunnar Morling has been
trying it:
 - http://in.relation.to/2016/06/17/bean-validation-and-the-jigsaw-liaison/

I'm not sure about all those other projects though, I personally deal
with only a fraction of them: we interact across projects on a need-be
case. (While Gunnar is on my same team).

My point was just that many of those developers - including often
myself - would reach out to David first rather than to this list, when
needing advice about modularity and classloading issues.

Thanks,
Sanne

>
> -Alan