From fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch Mon Mar 2 11:46:39 2009 From: fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch (Florian Brunner) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:39 +0100 Subject: Swing Group Status? Message-ID: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> Hi, I posted several e-mails the past 2 weeks but unfortunatly the only response from Sun was some shorts thoughts from Alexander Potochkin. Now, I don't want to blame anyone (I cannot always react as fast as I would like to, myself), but for the better understanding: What is the current status of the Swing group of OpenJDK inside Sun? How many developers work full-time for the Swing project inside Sun? How many developers work partial-time for the Swing project inside Sun? How is the communication to the community organized inside Sun? Do all Swing developers of Sun participate in swing-dev at openjdk.java.net or just some selected developers? Do these developers have some fixed time they can use to communicate with the community or just as needed and time allows? It would be great if we could speed up things a bit! -Florian From Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM Mon Mar 2 13:26:34 2009 From: Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM (Alexander Potochkin) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:26:34 +0300 Subject: Swing Group Status? In-Reply-To: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> References: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> Message-ID: <49ABDE8A.40502@sun.com> Hello Florian > Hi, > > I posted several e-mails the past 2 weeks but unfortunatly the only > response from Sun was some shorts thoughts from Alexander Potochkin. > Now, I don't want to blame anyone (I cannot always react as fast as I > would like to, myself), but for the better understanding: > > What is the current status of the Swing group of OpenJDK inside Sun? > How many developers work full-time for the Swing project inside Sun? > How many developers work partial-time for the Swing project inside Sun? > How is the communication to the community organized inside Sun? > Do all Swing developers of Sun participate in swing-dev at openjdk.java.net > or just some selected developers? > Do these developers have some fixed time they can use to communicate > with the community or just as needed and time allows? I am really sorry for delay in our communication Let me explain the situation: Your participation is very important for us, so the dedicated engineer(Pavel) is responsible for supporting your efforts. That's why I sent only shorts thoughts about that. Unfortunately Pavel is ill now and can't answer you, but it is not serious and he is going to recover in couple of days and returning to swing-dev > > It would be great if we could speed up things a bit! Meanwhile let me know if there is anything I can help you with. Thank you very much for your support alexp > > -Florian > From fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch Mon Mar 2 18:13:58 2009 From: fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch (Florian Brunner) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:13:58 +0100 Subject: Swing Group Status? In-Reply-To: <49ABDE8A.40502@sun.com> References: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> <49ABDE8A.40502@sun.com> Message-ID: <49AC21E6.80103@gmx.ch> Hi Alexander, thanks for your answer. Sorry to hear that Pavel is ill and hope he is soon well again. I understand that Pavel is responsible for the swing-generics project (from Sun side), but of course all Swing developers are invited to join the discussions (inside and outside of Sun). If all agree, the chances are smaller that we missed something. If not, then this can lead to more arguments from the other developers. This should also make life easier for Pavel to form an opinion for the final decision. Since creating a polished patch always takes some (of my free-)time, it's important for me that there are already decisions for all the open questions before I start to make a patch for later review. -Florian Alexander Potochkin schrieb: > Hello Florian > >> Hi, >> >> I posted several e-mails the past 2 weeks but unfortunatly the only >> response from Sun was some shorts thoughts from Alexander Potochkin. >> Now, I don't want to blame anyone (I cannot always react as fast as I >> would like to, myself), but for the better understanding: >> >> What is the current status of the Swing group of OpenJDK inside Sun? >> How many developers work full-time for the Swing project inside Sun? >> How many developers work partial-time for the Swing project inside Sun? >> How is the communication to the community organized inside Sun? >> Do all Swing developers of Sun participate in >> swing-dev at openjdk.java.net or just some selected developers? >> Do these developers have some fixed time they can use to communicate >> with the community or just as needed and time allows? > > I am really sorry for delay in our communication > > Let me explain the situation: > > Your participation is very important for us, > so the dedicated engineer(Pavel) > is responsible for supporting your efforts. > > That's why I sent only shorts thoughts about that. > > Unfortunately Pavel is ill now and can't answer you, > but it is not serious and he is going to recover in couple of days > and returning to swing-dev >> >> It would be great if we could speed up things a bit! > > Meanwhile let me know if there is anything I can help you with. > > Thank you very much for your support > alexp > >> >> -Florian >> > From Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM Mon Mar 2 18:33:22 2009 From: Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM (Alexander Potochkin) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:33:22 +0300 Subject: Swing Group Status? In-Reply-To: <49AC21E6.80103@gmx.ch> References: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> <49ABDE8A.40502@sun.com> <49AC21E6.80103@gmx.ch> Message-ID: <49AC2672.4010204@sun.com> Hello Florian > Hi Alexander, > > thanks for your answer. > > Sorry to hear that Pavel is ill and hope he is soon well again. > > I understand that Pavel is responsible for the swing-generics project > (from Sun side), but of course all Swing developers are invited to join > the discussions (inside and outside of Sun). If all agree, the chances > are smaller that we missed something. If not, then this can lead to more > arguments from the other developers. This should also make life easier > for Pavel to form an opinion for the final decision. That's correct. I'll encourage people to participate. > Since creating a polished patch always takes some (of my free-)time, > it's important for me that there are already decisions for all the open > questions before I start to make a patch for later review. I understand. I am going to reread the messages with your latest proposals. Thanks for your support alexp > > -Florian > > Alexander Potochkin schrieb: >> Hello Florian >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I posted several e-mails the past 2 weeks but unfortunatly the only >>> response from Sun was some shorts thoughts from Alexander Potochkin. >>> Now, I don't want to blame anyone (I cannot always react as fast as I >>> would like to, myself), but for the better understanding: >>> >>> What is the current status of the Swing group of OpenJDK inside Sun? >>> How many developers work full-time for the Swing project inside Sun? >>> How many developers work partial-time for the Swing project inside Sun? >>> How is the communication to the community organized inside Sun? >>> Do all Swing developers of Sun participate in >>> swing-dev at openjdk.java.net or just some selected developers? >>> Do these developers have some fixed time they can use to communicate >>> with the community or just as needed and time allows? >> >> I am really sorry for delay in our communication >> >> Let me explain the situation: >> >> Your participation is very important for us, >> so the dedicated engineer(Pavel) >> is responsible for supporting your efforts. >> >> That's why I sent only shorts thoughts about that. >> >> Unfortunately Pavel is ill now and can't answer you, >> but it is not serious and he is going to recover in couple of days >> and returning to swing-dev >>> >>> It would be great if we could speed up things a bit! >> >> Meanwhile let me know if there is anything I can help you with. >> >> Thank you very much for your support >> alexp >> >>> >>> -Florian >>> >> > From roman.kennke at aicas.com Mon Mar 2 19:37:04 2009 From: roman.kennke at aicas.com (Roman Kennke) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:37:04 +0100 Subject: Swing Group Status? In-Reply-To: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> References: <49ABC71F.6000001@gmx.ch> Message-ID: <1236022624.10565.2.camel@moonlight> Hi there, > I posted several e-mails the past 2 weeks but unfortunatly the only > response from Sun was some shorts thoughts from Alexander Potochkin. Btw, same for me. Generally, when I post something to swing-dev, I need a lot of patience. /Roman > Now, I don't want to blame anyone (I cannot always react as fast as I > would like to, myself), but for the better understanding: > > What is the current status of the Swing group of OpenJDK inside Sun? > How many developers work full-time for the Swing project inside Sun? > How many developers work partial-time for the Swing project inside Sun? > How is the communication to the community organized inside Sun? > Do all Swing developers of Sun participate in swing-dev at openjdk.java.net > or just some selected developers? > Do these developers have some fixed time they can use to communicate > with the community or just as needed and time allows? > > It would be great if we could speed up things a bit! > > -Florian > -- Dipl.-Inform. (FH) Roman Kennke, Software Engineer, http://kennke.org aicas Allerton Interworks Computer Automated Systems GmbH Haid-und-Neu-Stra?e 18 * D-76131 Karlsruhe * Germany http://www.aicas.com * Tel: +49-721-663 968-48 USt-Id: DE216375633, Handelsregister HRB 109481, AG Karlsruhe Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Dr. James J. Hunt From iman_shani at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 20:00:15 2009 From: iman_shani at hotmail.com (iman_shani at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:00:15 -0800 Subject: Semestersvar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM Tue Mar 3 18:27:12 2009 From: Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM (Alexander Potochkin) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:27:12 +0300 Subject: 6179357: Generics: JList: ListCellRenderer & prototypeCellValue In-Reply-To: <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <4f59bb5d0902221336x541d8f79h62d9e32abe5d577c@mail.gmail.com> <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> Message-ID: <49AD7680.4000100@sun.com> Hello Florian I must confess that I don't think it is desirable to generify every class in Swing, so #1 looks good for me :-) Two generic parameters add to much of typing, in my opinion Could you please provide a complete example of a JList with a custom ListCellRenderer that proves that renderer should be generified By the way the more examples the better, another one which promotes JList generifying would also help to promote this idea for Swing team members Thanks alexp > So, 2 votes for option 3), which is a reasonable one, I think. > > Pavel? Anyone else? > > -Florian > > Am Sonntag, 22. Februar 2009 schrieb Erik Lundqvist: >> Hi, >> ListCellRenderer should absolutely be generic which rules out option 1 :) >> I cannot remember ever using the prototypeCellValue so a bit worried about >> saying too much about how people are using it, but it does not seem >> unreasonable that it should be of the same type so I would go for Option 3 >> as well which seems the simpler and most common use case. >> >> //erik >> >> 2009/2/21 Florian Brunner >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think adding generics to the ListCellRenderer could also be useful. The >>> problem is that in JList >>> the same cell renderer is used for the items as for the >>> prototypeCellValue - and the >>> prototypeCellValue doesn't necessarily have be of the same type as the >>> items! >>> >>> So I think we have 3 options: >>> >>> 1) Don't provide a generic cell renderer/ allow only Object as parameter >>> for the cell renderer in >>> JList. >>> >>> 2) Add a second generic parameter. Eg. something like: >>> class JList { ... } >>> >>> and use P for the prototypeCellValue property as well as for the cell >>> renderer. >>> >>> 3) Require prototypeCellValue to be of type E. In the probably rare >>> cases, where this is a problem >>> one can still specify a common base class of the items and the >>> prototypeCellValue as the generic >>> parameter or use a raw type JList. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it would be a pity not to provide a generic cell renderer (1) and >>> think 2) is inconvenient >>> and confusing, since in my experiences prototypeCellValue is only used >>> rarely. >>> >>> So I'm voting for 3). For which option do you vote? For which reason? >>> >>> >>> >>> Note I also propose to use: >>> >>> ListCellRenderer cellRenderer >>> >>> rather than >>> >>> ListCellRenderer cellRenderer >>> >>> in JList. This would make it more flexible. Do you agree? (It's actually >>> the first time, I think, I >>> use 'super' with generics myself, but I think this is a good use case of >>> it. So any comments are >>> welcome. ;-) ) >>> >>> -Florian > > From fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch Tue Mar 3 18:51:04 2009 From: fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch (Florian Brunner) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:51:04 +0100 Subject: 6179357: Generics: JList: ListCellRenderer & prototypeCellValue In-Reply-To: <49AD7680.4000100@sun.com> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <4f59bb5d0902221336x541d8f79h62d9e32abe5d577c@mail.gmail.com> <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <49AD7680.4000100@sun.com> Message-ID: <49AD7C18.6000908@gmx.ch> Ok, I'll think about some examples. -Florian Alexander Potochkin schrieb: > Hello Florian > > I must confess that I don't think it is desirable > to generify every class in Swing, so #1 looks good for me > :-) > > Two generic parameters add to much of typing, in my opinion > > Could you please provide a complete example of a JList > with a custom ListCellRenderer that proves that renderer should be > generified > > By the way the more examples the better, > another one which promotes JList generifying > would also help to promote this idea for Swing team members > > Thanks > alexp > >> So, 2 votes for option 3), which is a reasonable one, I think. >> >> Pavel? Anyone else? >> >> -Florian >> >> Am Sonntag, 22. Februar 2009 schrieb Erik Lundqvist: >>> Hi, >>> ListCellRenderer should absolutely be generic which rules out option >>> 1 :) >>> I cannot remember ever using the prototypeCellValue so a bit worried >>> about >>> saying too much about how people are using it, but it does not seem >>> unreasonable that it should be of the same type so I would go for >>> Option 3 >>> as well which seems the simpler and most common use case. >>> >>> //erik >>> >>> 2009/2/21 Florian Brunner >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I think adding generics to the ListCellRenderer could also be >>>> useful. The >>>> problem is that in JList >>>> the same cell renderer is used for the items as for the >>>> prototypeCellValue - and the >>>> prototypeCellValue doesn't necessarily have be of the same type as the >>>> items! >>>> >>>> So I think we have 3 options: >>>> >>>> 1) Don't provide a generic cell renderer/ allow only Object as >>>> parameter >>>> for the cell renderer in >>>> JList. >>>> >>>> 2) Add a second generic parameter. Eg. something like: >>>> class JList { ... } >>>> >>>> and use P for the prototypeCellValue property as well as for the cell >>>> renderer. >>>> >>>> 3) Require prototypeCellValue to be of type E. In the probably rare >>>> cases, where this is a problem >>>> one can still specify a common base class of the items and the >>>> prototypeCellValue as the generic >>>> parameter or use a raw type JList. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think it would be a pity not to provide a generic cell renderer >>>> (1) and >>>> think 2) is inconvenient >>>> and confusing, since in my experiences prototypeCellValue is only used >>>> rarely. >>>> >>>> So I'm voting for 3). For which option do you vote? For which reason? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Note I also propose to use: >>>> >>>> ListCellRenderer cellRenderer >>>> >>>> rather than >>>> >>>> ListCellRenderer cellRenderer >>>> >>>> in JList. This would make it more flexible. Do you agree? (It's >>>> actually >>>> the first time, I think, I >>>> use 'super' with generics myself, but I think this is a good use >>>> case of >>>> it. So any comments are >>>> welcome. ;-) ) >>>> >>>> -Florian >> >> > From Thomas.Hawtin at Sun.COM Tue Mar 3 19:01:34 2009 From: Thomas.Hawtin at Sun.COM (Tom Hawtin) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:01:34 +0000 Subject: 6179357: Generics: JList: ListCellRenderer & prototypeCellValue In-Reply-To: <49AD7680.4000100@sun.com> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <4f59bb5d0902221336x541d8f79h62d9e32abe5d577c@mail.gmail.com> <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <49AD7680.4000100@sun.com> Message-ID: <49AD7E8E.7090203@sun.com> Alexander Potochkin wrote: > Could you please provide a complete example of a JList > with a custom ListCellRenderer that proves that renderer should be > generified I bet if you used NetBeans to find implementations of ListCellRenderer even within the JDK most useful implementations would cast the value argument. (I prefer option 3, btw.) Tom Hawtin From Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM Tue Mar 3 19:23:29 2009 From: Alexander.Potochkin at Sun.COM (Alexander Potochkin) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:23:29 +0300 Subject: 6179357: Generics: JList: ListCellRenderer & prototypeCellValue In-Reply-To: <49AD7E8E.7090203@sun.com> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <4f59bb5d0902221336x541d8f79h62d9e32abe5d577c@mail.gmail.com> <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <49AD7680.4000100@sun.com> <49AD7E8E.7090203@sun.com> Message-ID: <49AD83B1.3010107@sun.com> Hello Tom It's nice to see you here >> Could you please provide a complete example of a JList >> with a custom ListCellRenderer that proves that renderer should be >> generified > > I bet if you used NetBeans to find implementations of ListCellRenderer > even within the JDK most useful implementations would cast the value > argument. anyway, it is always better to have a fixed set of examples to discuss > > (I prefer option 3, btw.) Thanks alexp > > Tom Hawtin From fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch Wed Mar 4 01:04:12 2009 From: fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch (Florian Brunner) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 02:04:12 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?q?6179357=3A_Generics=3A_JList=3A_ListCellRen?= =?utf-8?q?derer=09=26_prototypeCellValue?= In-Reply-To: <49AD83B1.3010107@sun.com> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <49AD7E8E.7090203@sun.com> <49AD83B1.3010107@sun.com> Message-ID: <200903040204.12385.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> Here is a second sample. It's not really a real-world sample, but should be useful to show that also JList of other "value" types than String, such as Integer, Long and Short, can profit from generics. It also shows why JList should specify ListCellRenderer cellRenderer rather than ListCellRenderer cellRenderer (Here: a common Number-cell renderer is used.) -Florian Am Dienstag, 3. M?rz 2009 schrieb Alexander Potochkin: > Hello Tom > > It's nice to see you here > > >> Could you please provide a complete example of a JList > >> with a custom ListCellRenderer that proves that renderer should be > >> generified > > > > I bet if you used NetBeans to find implementations of ListCellRenderer > > even within the JDK most useful implementations would cast the value > > argument. > > anyway, it is always better to have a fixed set of examples to discuss > > > (I prefer option 3, btw.) > > Thanks > alexp > > > Tom Hawtin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ListSample2Frame.form Type: application/xml Size: 9827 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NumberCellRenderer.java Type: text/x-java Size: 931 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ListSample2Frame.java Type: text/x-java Size: 13229 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch Tue Mar 3 23:08:54 2009 From: fbrunnerlist at gmx.ch (Florian Brunner) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 00:08:54 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?q?6179357=3A_Generics=3A_JList=3A_ListCellRen?= =?utf-8?q?derer=09=26_prototypeCellValue?= In-Reply-To: <49AD83B1.3010107@sun.com> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <49AD7E8E.7090203@sun.com> <49AD83B1.3010107@sun.com> Message-ID: <200903040008.54785.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> Ok, here is a first sample. It's really small, maybe not 100% real-world, but should be useful to show what can be gained from generics. -Florian Am Dienstag, 3. M?rz 2009 schrieb Alexander Potochkin: > Hello Tom > > It's nice to see you here > > >> Could you please provide a complete example of a JList > >> with a custom ListCellRenderer that proves that renderer should be > >> generified > > > > I bet if you used NetBeans to find implementations of ListCellRenderer > > even within the JDK most useful implementations would cast the value > > argument. > > anyway, it is always better to have a fixed set of examples to discuss > > > (I prefer option 3, btw.) > > Thanks > alexp > > > Tom Hawtin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Participant.java Type: text/x-java Size: 755 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ListSample1Frame.form Type: application/xml Size: 8077 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ListSample1Frame.java Type: text/x-java Size: 9756 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Peter.Zhelezniakov at Sun.COM Thu Mar 5 12:19:26 2009 From: Peter.Zhelezniakov at Sun.COM (Peter Zhelezniakov) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:19:26 +0300 Subject: 6179357: Generics: JList: ListCellRenderer & prototypeCellValue In-Reply-To: <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> References: <200902211930.09829.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> <4f59bb5d0902221336x541d8f79h62d9e32abe5d577c@mail.gmail.com> <200902262228.19105.fbrunnerlist@gmx.ch> Message-ID: <49AFC34E.5040208@Sun.com> Florian Brunner wrote: > So, 2 votes for option 3), which is a reasonable one, I think. > > Pavel? Anyone else? There certainly are cases when it's tempting to use a String as a prototype value for a more complex object. However, with #3 this is still doable in a number of ways: JList