Announcing: valhalla-spec-experts group

Brian Goetz brian.goetz at
Tue Dec 15 15:24:57 UTC 2015

Exactly so; members can post, and if they can, they will.

Our mailing list software doesn't let us subscribe people read-only.  
You can set a moderated bit per-user, but then I get a moderation 
notification every time someone tries to post -- which defeats the 
purpose.  Plus, observers also want a place to have discussions among 
themselves.  Which is why we've historically had the -experts and 
-observers split.

On 12/15/2015 10:21 AM, kirk.pepperdine at wrote:
> I think that once you are subscribed you can email the list. I’m very much interested in observing but since I don’t have anything useful to add, I’d stay quiet.. but not everyone would. It’s a fine line to balance between stifling the discussion and not being distracted by endless discussions. Lets give Brian the benefit of his position on this one.
> Regards,
> Kirk
>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 4:11 PM, Paul Benedict <pbenedict at> wrote:
>> Brian, since you already know who is on the EG, why not grant write
>> permissions to them only, and the rest allowed to be subscribale? Or does
>> mailman not allow those types of controls?
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Brian Goetz <brian.goetz at> wrote:
>>> Several people tried to subscribe to valhalla-spec-experts, and were
>>> surprised to get rejected.  So let me clarify what's going on.
>>> The valhalla-spec-experts list is publicly READABLE, but not publicly
>>> SUBSCRIBABLE -- the membership is limited.  Now, lots of folks are
>>> interested in subscribing not as members of the EG, but to get updates on a
>>> timely basis without polling the archives, which is totally reasonable.
>>> For lambda, we had a lambda-spec-observers list which received copies of
>>> the traffic to lambda-spec-experts.  We plan to do the same for valhalla,
>>> we just haven't yet gone through the administrative work to do so (and I'd
>>> rather make some technical progress this week than futz with mailing list
>>> provisioning.)  So it will take some time to get the -observers and
>>> -comments lists up and running.  So please be patient!
>>> On 12/14/2015 3:07 PM, Brian Goetz wrote:
>>>> It's time to take the next step in Valhalla's evolution.  Accordingly,
>>>> I've created the valhalla-spec-experts list, which will be the precursor to
>>>> an eventual JCP Expert Group, and will operate under the JCP-friendly ToU.
>>>> This list is publicly archived in the obvious place, and the initial
>>>> membership includes both corporate participation (Oracle, IBM, Red Hat,
>>>> Jetbrains, Google) and individuals from the OpenJDK community.
>>>> As was the case when we formed the Lambda experts list, the role of
>>>> valhalla-dev should now revert to its intended purpose, which is to discuss
>>>> the *implementation* of Valhalla in OpenJDK. Examples of appropriate
>>>> discussion topics for valhalla-dev include:
>>>> - Bug reports
>>>> - Code review comments
>>>> - Test cases
>>>> - Build or porting problems
>>>> - Migration experiences for your own code
>>>> What we are trying to avoid is: having design discussions play out
>>>> concurrently in multiple places with differing sets of players. So please,
>>>> we ask that you exercise restraint in commenting on active EG discussions
>>>> -- as design decisions start to converge, we'll announce them here, and of
>>>> course the primary place for implementation will remain the valhalla
>>>> repositories.
>>>> Please remember that EG discussions often happen at a different pace than
>>>> in other open-source projects.  Days can go by without a response, but this
>>>> doesn't mean that the EG is not thinking about it, doesn't care, or is
>>>> "stumped".  Often it simply means the EG members are working privately (or
>>>> with their teams) to figure out what their position is, and will respond
>>>> when they've thought about it more.  So, please let those discussions play
>>>> out.

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