[rfc][icedtea-web] Update de localized messages to 1.6

[Jiri Vanek]

On 07/23/2015 02:11 PM, Jacob Wisor wrote:
> On 07/23/2015 at 10:09 AM Jiri Vanek wrote:
>> On 07/22/2015 06:54 PM, Jacob Wisor wrote:
>>> Hello there!
>>>
>>> I have updated the de localized messages to 1.6. However, I did not translate
>>> the man pages related
>>> messages because they are difficult to translate without the respective
>>> context, which is a man
>>> page. Anyhow, this approach results in possibly deploying redundant data - or
>>> dead data at best - on
>>> target machines, so I am still unconvinced of any of the possible benefits.
>>> Lumping man page text
>>> with program resources together makes it even harder to maintain, hence even
>>> more prone to get
>>> abandoned. Yes, one could translate on a per message basis but this would
>>> produce either useless or
>>> ridiculous man pages, just like those manuals you get when you throw in a
>>> bunch of text into an
>>> automatic natural language translator. :-D
>>
>> Are you aware that those messages are reused also in runtime help,  -about
>> program output and in online help? Not having them translated is big flaw.
>
> If you want online help (or runtime help, whatever you want to call it) then it should be the other
> way round. The content for online help should be generated from man pages or product documentation
> than from program resources.
>
>> Also - maintaining those documentations separately is much more cost then have
>> the message  "not perfect"
>
> For me, that is from a localizer's point of view, this approach is one big mess. It imposes an
> unnecessarily bulky work flow. I don't, maybe it's just me but localizing IcedTea-Web has become
Alexandr did nto compalined, and the CZ manpages/manual/-about looks ok.
Tahts my only experience I can put as precedes, but I'm not able to judge it from my personal side.

The only think I judge is, that documentation no longer suffers from misleading sentences, 
missing/redundant switches, invalid use-case completely creepy list of used files or missing at all.

> much more difficult than it used to be. I have never seen any software project mingle manual text
> with program resources, probably for a bunch of good reasons...
>
>> How PL? Can I count with it for 1.6.1?
>
> Yeah, they should be ready for the release but without the man page portion.

Thanx!
>
>> If you are unwilling to translate the man/help/info  paragraphs, do you mind  If
>> I try to contact some another person? (tbh - I don't have backup :( )
>
> Sure, you can contact anybody you want. To be honest, I am tired of this mess. It used to be fun
> localizing IcedTea-Web but since manual text and program resources have been lumped together without
> proper support it has become more like some sort of suffering.

What mean proper support?

No one ever was maintain man pages x program x runtime help x program -about
No one ever. Each part was outdated as much, as somebody noted that this part is wrong. So he fixed 
it, and later i was just DIFFERENTLY outdated then another part. So at the end informations in those 
three sources were contradicting to each other.

 From all points I'm able to look into it (probably except translator's one) of,  it was really good 
change.

I'm really sorry that it made you so unhappy.
>
>> Thank you very much for this DE translation! Being it incomplete,  I can not say
>> much about validity.
>> Applied on head:
>> 7 redundant keys
>> 74 not trasnslated keys
>>
>> compared with CZ(wich was is ok only for 1.6.1)
>> 3 redundant keys
>> 7 not transalted
>>
>>
>> (and of course PL 22 redundant, 186 not translated)
>
> Which "HEAD" are we talking about here? I have generated the patch against the
> icedtea-web-1.6-branchpoint tag, which should not have any orphan keys versus the fallback. So, I am
You should be doing so on head of 1.6, as it is future  1.6.1. But afaik no changes in 
messages.properties.

> a bit puzzled here.

My apologize. I tested the changeset on HEAD  - I mean on hg/icedtea-web As I did not had 
hg/release/icedtea-web-1.6 handy

>
>> Attached are affected keys for DE and CZ (thats resull ot furrent
>> MessagesProperties test - I really think it is *good* result, and I'm not sure
>> what you don't like on it)
>
> Sure, I can drop them. However, I am still going to run my enhanced MessagesPropertiesTest before I
> push.

eee.. don't drop anything you are not sure about :) You If you have tested with 1.6 and it is 
passingyuor tests, then its probably ok.

I can handle backport later on my own.

>
>> Anyway, I'm not able to judge language (my german is worse and worse every year
>> sinc I returnet from Konstanz...) so from me, ok to push for head and 1.6. Still
>> anything is better then nothinng :))
>
> I do not think so. Bad translations are more confusing than doing anything good.

I see. Lets it sleep in mailing list for a while then.
>
> Regards,
> Jacob


Best regards from cz,
   J.