Java Deployment (was Re: JavaFX 8 Progress)

[John C. Turnbull]

What's the performance like?

What version of Java does it support?

Is it a subset of the JRE or complete?

-----Original Message-----
From: openjfx-dev-bounces at openjdk.java.net
[mailto:openjfx-dev-bounces at openjdk.java.net] On Behalf Of Sven Reimers
Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 15:01
To: Daniel Zwolenski
Cc: openjfx-dev at openjdk.java.net; mike.ehrenberg at barchart.comEhrenberg;
JeremyJongsma
Subject: Re: Java Deployment (was Re: JavaFX 8 Progress)

A Java Runtime on top of JavaScript -
http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Bck2Brwsr

-Sven


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Daniel Zwolenski <zonski at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes this is another option, basically running it on a server and then 
> rendering on the client. JavaFX could be extended to do this.
>
> Another alternative is a 'java runtime' built on top of jscript 
> (similar idea to the runtime being built for mobile, like robovm). In 
> this cases jfx would run 100% in the browser on top of jscript.
>
> Another option is a runtime built for the native elements of each browser.
> Eg a runtime running on chrome's native interface, etc.
>
> All of the above would require a lot of work before being ready to use 
> and likely would have some tradeoffs in terms of features or 
> performance. The options I listed in the last email are in my opinion 
> more achievable in the short term and generally give decent results.
>
> Right now, if you want to deploy jfx my pick suggestion would be 
> completely avoid any of the oracle solutions and just pay the licence 
> fee for install4j. Although I'd not seen jwrapper until just now and 
> it could do with some looking into too.
>
> On 19/07/2013, at 8:10 AM, Mario Torre 
> <neugens.limasoftware at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > For Swing you can actually use CacioWeb, works quite well. Zero
> deployment, no VM needed, no plugin, just an HTML 5 capable browser.
> >
> > Doesn't work with JavaFX unfortunately.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mario
> >
> > Il giorno 19/lug/2013 00:03, "Daniel Zwolenski" <zonski at gmail.com> 
> > ha
> scritto:
> > >
> > > There are definitely credible alternatives. The problem is 
> > > currently
> the alternatives are not implemented well enough so web still ends up 
> a contender just by being the only one able to stand up.
> > >
> > > And for the record I build both public facing apps and back-office
> apps and web deploy does not work well for either. I stopped using jfx 
> because of deployment. I now build only webapps because of deployment.
> > >
> > > Credible alternatives:
> > >
> > > 1. Native bundlers, but we need:
> > > - auto updating so people can easily release patch updates
> > > - smaller co-bundled jre's so that the initial download and 
> > > install is
> smooth and quick
> > > - better build tools to make this easier to integrate into a 
> > > standard
> build process, with some solution for cross-platform build support or 
> to at least minimize the pain
> > >
> > > 2. App stores:
> > > - ready to go right now for Mac but we don't have the tools and I
> think we need everything fully open sourced for licensing reasons 
> (hard to
> say)
> > > - need to either pick one of the unofficial win app stores for
> pre-win8 support (there's a few), or build our own app store
> > > - we just need tools for building and deploying to app stores (not
> that hard) and cut down jre sizes again (app stores are an extension 
> of cobundling approach).
> > >
> > > 3. Self-hosted 'app store' for corporate settings. install a 
> > > small,
> native client on the machine that allows that user to download and 
> install apps from your private server, with auto-updating, etc
> > > - we need to build one, not that hard, maybe a month or two of 
> > > work to
> get a first working version out. I would have built one by now but 
> because jfx packaging tools are so bad I've burnt up all my spare time 
> just putting wrappers around these to get the most basic of maven plugins
to work.
> > >
> > > All of the above could have been implemented by now if there was 
> > > just
> a little bit of love in this area. One resource ticking away would 
> have been enough to get something going. As it stands there has been 
> zero, nada, zip changes into anything other than web/security 
> deployment efforts over the last year. J8 due next year (!) will not 
> include any of the above, or even any simple improvements to 
> deployment approaches other than web, to the best of my knowledge.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 19/07/2013, at 7:30 AM, Mark Fortner <phidias51 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've heard the "webstart is broke, don't fix it, move on" song
> before from a number of people.  What I haven't heard is a credible 
> solution to solving the very real problem of keeping an app up-to-date 
> in a corporate setting.  For the most part, I agree that if you're in 
> the business of selling commercial software, selling and distributing 
> through an app store probably makes sense for you. Although I wouldn't 
> relish having to build on all of those platforms.
> > > >
> > > > However, posting proprietary apps to external OS-specific app 
> > > > stores
> doesn't really work for anyone in a corporate setting.  Neither does 
> making a user re-install an application every time you post a bug fix.  
> In addition, many corporations limit the privileges they give users.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
>



--
Sven Reimers

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