Anyone using JMX with JavaFX?
Felix Bembrick
felix.bembrick at gmail.com
Tue Jun 14 10:42:17 UTC 2016
Thanks Robert - much appreciated.
Just be careful, you may soon be labelled a spammer, get threatened with being banned from this list and also expect random creeps to send you private (cowardly) "offline" insults.
But, don't worry, I am well aware of the *massive* number of poor believers in JavaFX out there who can get nothing but intimidation out of Oracle.
I am just the one who put my hand up to say what everyone else is thinking simply because their lame efforts to "dispose" of me just make me chuckle...
P.S. I am willing to bet this post will "magically" not make it into the list somehow...
But you will at least get it.
So much for "open" JFX!
Blessings,
Felix
> On 14 Jun 2016, at 20:25, Robert Krüger <krueger at lesspain.software> wrote:
>
> Only regarding the net loss for the community: There are not many places where people trying to defend (and make a living off) Java as a viable desktop technology can try to get information from Oracle and the questions he asks are also the ones we (as an ISV with a Java-based product) would ask, so I do regard them as valuable.
>
> Having said that, I understand, however that those things will never get an answer here (never have in the past, having asked such questions myself).
>
> Just writing that so Felix does not feel that he's alone with his concerns and to add another data point on the Oracle radar that Houston, we do have a real problem here and quite a few frustrated Java advocates.
>
> Over and out.
>
> Robert
>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:26 PM, dalibor topic <dalibor.topic at oracle.com> wrote:
>>> On 13.06.2016 15:02, Felix Bembrick wrote:
>>> I am one of the most vocal, passionate and positive advocates for OpenJFX and JavaFX.
>>
>> Felix,
>>
>> That may very well be the case, in your opinion, but this mailing list is not a forum for advocacy. It is for technical discussions.
>>
>> Whether you are or you are not an advocate for something or other is not relevant on this mailing list. Maybe there is some other forum where people who are advocates for things meet and have vocal and passionate discussions with each other. In any case, this mailing list is not it, because what you are or what you aren't is not a technical subject to begin with.
>>
>> Unless you are a robot, of course. But in that case, this mailing list would still be the wrong forum ...
>>
>> Please, hold off on posting off-topic posts to this list for a week or two.
>>
>> If for some reason you feel the need to continue to spam this mailing list with off-topic posts, as you have done so far, despite being asked to stop both on and off-list, then I trust that the mailing list administrator could take care of this problem for all of us.
>>
>> cheers,
>> dalibor topic
>>
>>
>>>> On 13 Jun 2016, at 22:45, dalibor topic <dalibor.topic at oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Felix,
>>>>
>>>> This is an open source Project's mailing list, specifically for technical discussions of that Project's development. It's not an 'open' forum suitable for discussion of other issues.
>>>>
>>>> Removing participants that continue to abuse the privilege of being on an open source project's mailing list is a useful tool to deal with individuals which contribute negatively to a project, if they don't seem to be able to change their act.
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> dalibor topic
>>>>
>>>>> On 13.06.2016 14:11, Felix Bembrick wrote:
>>>>> Dear Dalibor,
>>>>>
>>>>> "This mailing list is the not the right forum for discussions of
>>>>> Oracle's products. This mailing list is for OpenJFX development,
>>>>> specifically."
>>>>>
>>>>> Read that again. Thank you for giving me the clear answer you promised!
>>>>>
>>>>> And thanks for the warning in case I accidentally start "spamming". But
>>>>> surely you wouldn't remove anyone from an "open" forum would you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>
>>>>> Felix
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13 Jun 2016, at 21:17, dalibor topic <dalibor.topic at oracle.com
>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Felix,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if you'd like to ask questions about Oracle's products, please do so
>>>>>> at https://community.oracle.com/welcome .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This mailing list is the not the right forum for discussions of
>>>>>> Oracle's products. This mailing list is for OpenJFX development,
>>>>>> specifically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On a side note, spamming this list with off-topic posts could result
>>>>>> in removal from it without further warning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>> dalibor topic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13.06.2016 12:37, Felix Bembrick wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks you most sincerely Dalibor for that very direct response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only... it wasn't really, was it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You "believe I am entitled to a clear answer to my question".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great! */So why have you still not answered it?/*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me put it another way */so as there can be no possible room for any
>>>>>>> further confusion (hopefully)/*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> */COULD YOU PLEASE DETAIL EXACTLY WHERE JAVAFX IS USED IN EITHER
>>>>>>> PRODUCTS USED INTERNALLY BY ORACLE OR IN COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS WHICH
>>>>>>> ORACLE MARKETS?/*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, please give me the "clear answer" that I "am entitled to" (Your
>>>>>>> words, not mine).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Given that we now know that usage of JavaFX within JMX is about to be
>>>>>>> abandoned, and there may be a tiny fraction of JMC that is still gasping
>>>>>>> for air written using JavaFX, but knowing how */incredibly
>>>>>>> enthusiastically Oracle is advancing JavaFX/*, I *know* there must be
>>>>>>> hundreds more examples and I am sure we would all love to hear about
>>>>>>> them). That would give us all a lot more faith in JavaFX. I am sure you
>>>>>>> want that don't you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See - no mention of age of participants, telephony equipment or career
>>>>>>> plans! Just JMX and a lot about OpenJFX!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am I *still* in the wrong forum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All my blessings,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Felix
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. What is this "bitterness" that you speak of?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13 June 2016 at 19:55, dalibor topic <dalibor.topic at oracle.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Felix, I believe that you are entitled to a clear answer to your
>>>>>>> question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I have considered a career in politics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That being said, I would kindly suggest that you stop trying to
>>>>>>> divert[0] technical discussions in this community with off-topic
>>>>>>> posts, such as your contributions to this thread so far, where you
>>>>>>> attempted to discuss :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * the age of discussion participants,
>>>>>>> * their telephony equipment and
>>>>>>> * career plans,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> none of which have anything to do with JMX or OpenJFX.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Instead, you should consider unsubscribing from this mailing list
>>>>>>> for a week or two, in order to get clarity in what capacity, if any,
>>>>>>> you'd like to positively contribute to ongoing OpenJFX development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As it stands, your current mode of participation on this mailing
>>>>>>> list is a net loss for this community, and apparently, for yourself
>>>>>>> as well, judging by what seems to be an increasing amount of
>>>>>>> bitterness in your posts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can change that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>> Dalibor Topic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [0] https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/thread_patterns/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10.06.2016 15:29, Felix Bembrick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dalibor, please forgive me for assuming that Oracle had access
>>>>>>> to an English language parser. I could translate my original
>>>>>>> question into Klingon and resubmit if that would help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And thanks so much for pointing out to me that this forum is
>>>>>>> devoted to "ongoing OpenJFX development". Clearly I was under
>>>>>>> the misapprehension that it was about unicorns, angels and aliens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, the word "ongoing" probably could do with some
>>>>>>> clarification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, and I don't actually *need* to find a forum to discuss
>>>>>>> telephony equipment used by other organisations because such
>>>>>>> information is transparent and clearly indicates belief and
>>>>>>> commitment to their own technologies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just out of interest, have you ever considered a career in
>>>>>>> politics?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And thanks for finally answering my question (even if it was
>>>>>>> accidental)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 Jun 2016, at 22:59, Dalibor Topic
>>>>>>> <dalibor.topic at oracle.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Felix, unfortunately your original question was not
>>>>>>> parse-able.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before you go on prolonging this thread with more of that,
>>>>>>> please consider that this mailing list is for discussion of
>>>>>>> ongoing OpenJFX development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If instead you would prefer to discuss something else,
>>>>>>> please do try to find a more suitable venue for discussion
>>>>>>> of such interests. While I can't help you find an adequate
>>>>>>> forum to discuss telephony equipment used by employees of
>>>>>>> other organizations, I hope that you will be able to find a
>>>>>>> better place to do so in the future.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Dalibor Topic
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product
>>>>>>> Manager
>>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214><tel:+494089091214
>>>>>>> <tel:%2B494089091214>> | Mobile: +491737185961
>>>>>>> <tel:%2B491737185961>
>>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
>>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande
>>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr.
>>>>>>> 30143697
>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val
>>>>>>> Maher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to
>>>>>>> developing
>>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10.06.2016, at 12:46, Felix Bembrick
>>>>>>> <felix.bembrick at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:felix.bembrick at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:felix.bembrick at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am taking that as a "yes" answer to my original
>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a completely unrelated topic, do Microsoft employees
>>>>>>> all have Macs on their desktops and carry iPhones and
>>>>>>> iPads around?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I bet Apple employees do!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 Jun 2016, at 20:01, dalibor topic
>>>>>>> <dalibor.topic at oracle.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.topic at oracle.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect that particular plugin is extremely rarely
>>>>>>> used, judging by
>>>>>>> https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=%22javafx-mx.jar%22&type=Code&ref=searchresults
>>>>>>> showing 0 results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>> dalibor topic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 09.06.2016 00:31, Kevin Rushforth wrote:
>>>>>>> As some of you may be aware, JavaFX has shipped
>>>>>>> a JMX plugin as a
>>>>>>> separate jar file along with the JDK (not part
>>>>>>> of the JRE) in
>>>>>>> <JDK>/lib/javafx-mx.jar. Development on this
>>>>>>> plugin stopped prior to JDK
>>>>>>> 8 being shipped, although we continued to ship
>>>>>>> javafx-mx.jar in JDK 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are there any developers that still use this? We
>>>>>>> haven't seen any bug
>>>>>>> reports or had questions on it for quite a
>>>>>>> while. I note that this jar
>>>>>>> file has been gone from JDK 9 ea since build 111
>>>>>>> and we are trying to
>>>>>>> determine how best to address this in JDK 9.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our options are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Remove it entirely and drop this tooling
>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) Continue to ship it as a legacy jar file,
>>>>>>> meaning that any use would
>>>>>>> require command line qualified exports to be
>>>>>>> added since it uses
>>>>>>> internal packages
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) Turn it into a proper JDK-only module,
>>>>>>> javafx.jmx; it would not be
>>>>>>> one of the default modules, so it would need to
>>>>>>> be added with -addmods.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously #1 would be the least amount of work,
>>>>>>> and given that it isn't
>>>>>>> being actively maintained, might be a viable
>>>>>>> solution. If we do need to
>>>>>>> keep it, then #2 might be less effort than #3,
>>>>>>> while still preserving
>>>>>>> the ability for developers to use it. This is
>>>>>>> only used for tooling, so
>>>>>>> requiring qualified exports, as is done for
>>>>>>> Robot and
>>>>>>> PerformanceTracker, is not a problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Separately, if we don't remove it for JDK 9, we
>>>>>>> probably will deprecate
>>>>>>> it with the intention to remove it in a future
>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Kevin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal
>>>>>>> Product Manager
>>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214>
>>>>>>> <tel:+494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214>> | Mobile:
>>>>>>> +491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>
>>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 |
>>>>>>> 22761 Hamburg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
>>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande
>>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer
>>>>>>> Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan
>>>>>>> Schultheiss, Val Maher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is
>>>>>>> committed to developing
>>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the
>>>>>>> environment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager
>>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214> <tel:+494089091214
>>>>>>> <tel:%2B494089091214>> | Mobile: +491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>
>>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
>>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande
>>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing
>>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager
>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:+494089091214> | Mobile: +491737185961
>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande
>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing
>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager
>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:+494089091214> | Mobile: +491737185961
>>>> <tel:+491737185961>
>>>>
>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg
>>>>
>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>>>
>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande
>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing
>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment
>>
>> --
>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager
>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:+494089091214> | Mobile: +491737185961
>> <tel:+491737185961>
>>
>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg
>>
>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG
>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München
>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603
>>
>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V.
>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande
>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher
>>
>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing
>> practices and products that help protect the environment
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Krüger
> Managing Partner
> Lesspain GmbH & Co. KG
>
> http://lesspain.software
> http://kyno.software
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