Testing accessibility / sample apps

Stephen F Northover steve.x.northover at oracle.com
Wed Jun 25 15:49:22 UTC 2014 

The following line of crap works for me on Windows to run Ensemble:

java -cp 
/Users/Steve/Documents/jfx-8u20/jfx/rt/build/sdk/rt/lib/ext/jfxrt.jar;/Users/Steve/Documents/jfx-8u20/jfx/rt/apps/samples/Ensemble8/dist/Ensemble8.jar 
ensemble.EnsembleApp

I just checked the wiki and it's not documented.  I will update it.

Steve

On 2014-06-25, 11:04 AM, Kevin Rushforth wrote:
> If you use build/sdk/rt/lib/ext/jfxrt.jar then it will find the 
> corresponding DLLs, but if you use the built class files rather than 
> jfxrt.jar then you are right in that you need to specify 
> -Djava.library.path to point to the native DLLs.
>
> -- Kevin
>
>
> Tom Schindl wrote:
>> I think you also need to spec the native-dlls location else there's the
>> chance of a mismatch because the dlls are loaded from the JRE and might
>> not match the java-classes.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On 25.06.14 16:51, Kevin Rushforth wrote:
>>> I usually add jfxrt.jar to the bootclasspath, but as long as you have
>>> removed jfxrt.jar from your JDK, classpath will work, too.
>>>
>>> -- Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> Jann Schneider wrote:
>>>> Hi Felipe!
>>>>
>>>> thanks, this are good News :-)
>>>> Well yesterday i had some issues with the build bc the famous Windows
>>>> updates Feature screwed things up .. however, i've recently fixed it
>>>> so i'll try it today.
>>>> Just another question concerning testing with the "build from
>>>> sources": i guess i can just run the example apps located in
>>>> <openjfx>/apps/ ? What would be the proper way to invoke one of them
>>>> and make sure the proper jfx is loaded?
>>>> Do i have to add it to the boot cp? Or is it enough to just put it on
>>>> the classpath?
>>>>
>>>> Regards Jann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-06-25 7:17 GMT+02:00, Felipe Heidrich 
>>>> <felipe.heidrich at oracle.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jann,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have re-enabled all the accessibility code in
>>>>> hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8u-dev/rt
>>>>> Notes:
>>>>> I have also released the fix for JAWS (RT-37530). But before testing
>>>>> text
>>>>> edits  you will need to add a setting to JAWS, see
>>>>> https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-37609
>>>>> You still need the -Djavafx.accessible.force=true on Windows 7, 
>>>>> but very
>>>>> soon that will not be needed anymore, see:
>>>>> https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-37702
>>>>>
>>>>> Internally we did virtually all our testing using Narrator and
>>>>> VoiceOver,
>>>>> which are the native screen readers on Windows and MacOSX 
>>>>> respectively.
>>>>> I believe you will be the first to try JAWS and NVDA on Windows 7.
>>>>> Let me
>>>>> know how it goes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Felipe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 23, 2014, at 3:50 AM, Jann Schneider
>>>>> <jann.schneider at googlemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Felipe,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i tried with the latest available EA build, java -version tells me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> java version "1.8.0_20-ea"
>>>>>> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_20-ea-b19)
>>>>>> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.20-b19, mixed mode, sharing)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also i used Jaws 15 (-.0.9 i think) and as an alternative NVDA 14.2.
>>>>>> Hum, not quite sure about the narrator tool: i guess thats the one
>>>>>> that shipps with windows? Well i can try this too though i'm not
>>>>>> really used to it :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it's better to just wait until the code is back and test with
>>>>>> the current sources.. So we have the same base and know exactly what
>>>>>> we expect for the tests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards Jann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2014-06-21 5:16 GMT+02:00, Felipe Heidrich
>>>>>> <felipe.heidrich at oracle.com>:
>>>>>>> Hi Jann,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is great that you got to build JavaFX, it will make much
>>>>>>> easier to
>>>>>>> test
>>>>>>> patches and fixes going forward.
>>>>>>> That said, assuming that you downloaded jdk1.8.0_20 b19 or less,
>>>>>>> accessibility should have worked.
>>>>>>> What is the output of java -version ? Can you try Narrator ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ll put the code back early next week, either Monday or Tuesday.
>>>>>>> You can track the progress here:
>>>>>>> https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-37536
>>>>>>> I’ll email the list when the code is out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Felipe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2014, at 4:00 PM, Jann Schneider
>>>>>>> <jann.schneider at googlemail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ok i just rebuild using the 32 bit jdk and this works!
>>>>>>>> $ gradle clean sdk
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> BUILD SUCCESSFUL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think i've just installed the 32 bit C++ compilers only. Maybe i
>>>>>>>> missed a setting in the installer of visual studio .. btw. i build
>>>>>>>> with the VS 2010 express (as suggested at the wiki).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So i'll wait until the accessibility portion is back in the 
>>>>>>>> repo and
>>>>>>>> try with that included then. Thanks for your help so fahr!
>>>>>>>> @Steve: could you please send a short message to the list if the
>>>>>>>> accessibility sources are in the repo again?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Jann
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2014-06-20 23:50 GMT+02:00, Jann Schneider
>>>>>>>> <jann.schneider at googlemail.com>:
>>>>>>>>> Yes looks like i have an issue with looking up cl.exe.
>>>>>>>>> This was the output when running with --stacktrace:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Exception is:
>>>>>>>>> org.gradle.api.tasks.TaskExecutionException: Execution failed for
>>>>>>>>> task
>>>>>>>>> ':fxpackager:buildJavaPackager'.
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Caused by: org.gradle.api.GradleException: Could not call
>>>>>>>>> NativeCompileTask.compile() on task 
>>>>>>>>> ':fxpackager:buildJavaPackager'
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Caused by: java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
>>>>>>>>> org.gradle.process.internal.ExecException: A problem occurred
>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>> process 'command 'C:/Program Files (x86)/Microsoft Visual Studio
>>>>>>>>> 10.0/VC/BIN/amd64/cl.exe''
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Caused by: java.io.IOException: Cannot run program "C:/Program 
>>>>>>>>> Files
>>>>>>>>> (x86)/Microsoft Visual Studio 10.0/VC/BIN/amd64/cl.exe" (in
>>>>>>>>> directory
>>>>>>>>> "D:\jann\sandbox\java\openjfx\modules\fxpackager"): CreateProcess
>>>>>>>>> error=2, Das System kann die angegebene Datei nicht finden
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Caused by: java.io.IOException: CreateProcess error=2, Das System
>>>>>>>>> kann
>>>>>>>>> die angegebene Datei nicht finden (file not found)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually cl.exe is located at: C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft
>>>>>>>>> Visual
>>>>>>>>> Studio 10.0\VC\bin - but it looks for ...bin/amd64/cl.exe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've also tried to run the build from the cygwin terminal and as
>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>> from the visual studio command prompt where i could call cl.exe
>>>>>>>>> directly .. Always the same result.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there a parameter to specify where theVS compiler and stuff is
>>>>>>>>> located? btw. i checked that the %VS100COMNTools% variable is set
>>>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What else could i check? Thanks in advance :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jann
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2014-06-20 23:30 GMT+02:00, Kevin Rushforth
>>>>>>>>> <kevin.rushforth at oracle.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>> * What went wrong:
>>>>>>>>>>> Execution failed for task ':fxpackager:buildJavaPackager'.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could not call NativeCompileTask.compile() on task
>>>>>>>>>>> ':fxpackager:buildJavaPackager'
>>>>>>>>>> When I've seen this in the past it's been related to the 
>>>>>>>>>> compiler
>>>>>>>>>> install. Do you have VS 2010 SP1 or something else?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jann Schneider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well on windows it's always a bit more difficult i guess :-)
>>>>>>>>>>> After setting up my build environment as described on the 
>>>>>>>>>>> wiki i
>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>>>>>> $ gradle tasks
>>>>>>>>>>> This works as expected! When running
>>>>>>>>>>> $ gradle sdk
>>>>>>>>>>> or just gradle without any target i get the following error:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * What went wrong:
>>>>>>>>>>> Execution failed for task ':fxpackager:buildJavaPackager'.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could not call NativeCompileTask.compile() on task
>>>>>>>>>>>> ':fxpackager:buildJavaPackager'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this a "known issue" and do you know what's going wrong 
>>>>>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>>>> Should i post more "info" or "debug" output, too?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> Jann
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-06-20 21:58 GMT+02:00, Stephen F Northover
>>>>>>>>>>> <steve.x.northover at oracle.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Being non-Unix, Windows is always a pain.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-06-20, 3:42 PM, Kevin Rushforth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope you have similar success with the Windows build.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jann Schneider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The build instructions for linux where very good! I was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the project without any problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards Jann
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-06-20 19:27 GMT+02:00, Kevin Rushforth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kevin.rushforth at oracle.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, you will still use the 8u-dev repo at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8u-dev/rt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just that after Monday the repo will "become" the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8u40
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work is done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the build, it is a bit painful to set up for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too bad as long as you don't need to build WebKit. We 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in hearing whether the instructions on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sufficient for you to get the build working.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen F Northover wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, let us know how you get on with building FX.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: The accessibility code is not there in 8u20 so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensuring that you can build on Windows (there is nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test).  The accessibility code will be going back into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8u40 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or Tuesday so you'll need to get that release at that time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it instead when it becomes available.  It's good to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debug the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process though because it can be painful building from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-06-20, 12:43 PM, Jann Schneider wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Steven: thx for the links. I'll try to build the openjfx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the windows 7 notebook and test the sample apps with NVDA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today i tried the latest ea of jdk1.8.0_20 and sample 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nvda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 14.2. Unfortunately i was not able to read anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> except the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> window
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> title.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just installed the jdk, changed my JAVA_HOME and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e.g. the ensemble.jar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $ java -jar ensemble.jar -Djavafx.accessible.force=true
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i'll try it again by means of building javafx from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post my results back to the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards Jann!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-06-20 14:46 GMT+02:00, Stephen F Northover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <steve.x.northover at oracle.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Jann!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As soon as the 8u40 repos open, the Accessibility 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> along with the recent fixes for JAWS.  Since OpenJFX
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JDK) does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have nightly builds, unless you want to wait for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an EA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8u40
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or 9, you will need to get OpenJFX and build it.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best way to work with the team anyway because you can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fixes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are made.  EA builds take a while to come out and there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substitute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for running on the latest code base.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately due to Microsoft, building OpenJFX is a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows.  However, it is doable and the build 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete.  If they are not (and if you hit any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back to this list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here are the build instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/Building+OpenJFX 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many committers use an IDE (you don't have to) and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenJFX is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the three major IDE vendors:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/Using+an+IDE 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to working with you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-06-19, 7:10 PM, Felipe Heidrich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jann,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately Linux support is not in the plan for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8u40.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7 is supported and we have recently fixed JAWS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-37530 and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-37609).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately due to the 8u20 to 8u40 transition the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> released yet, but soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The majority of our testing was done using Narrator. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tested NVDA lastest version on Windows 8 and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn’t see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the Mac we tested with VoiceOver.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Felipe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 2014, at 2:24 PM, Jann Schneider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jann.schneider at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a blind java developer i'm interessted in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessibility of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JavaFX and maybe help to find some issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just set up my build environment on my ubuntu 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 14.04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laptop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checked out the project files as described in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wiki. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it up on a windows 7 with Jaws 15 and NVDa (don't know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version is) for comparison..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No i am wondering if there are some examples i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could try?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards Jann
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>

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